Check Swing Appeal- Is it a "Must"?

[buckyswider]

Hi all, I'm certain I've seen situations in the past where a catcher has asked the HP umpire to appeal a check swing called a ball, and HP ump has refused the request.  Throughout my career I've always been under the impression that it was at the discretion of the HP ump whether to ask for help on this or not.  Somebody now has pointed out to me  the 8.0.2(c) comment (emphasis mine):

 

Quote

Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing

So have I been wrong all these years?  Can anyone else recall a situation where the HP ump refused to appeal when requested?

Thanks!  

[noumpere]

Optional (but a good idea 99 and 44/100 percent of the time) in FED; required in OBR.

[Jimurray]

2 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Optional (but a good idea 99 and 44/100 percent of the time) in FED; required in OBR.

Also optional in LL ditto(), required in NCAA. 

[buckyswider]

Thanks guys!  Geez, I'm fairly certain I've seen Cowboy Joe West deny a catcher's request for an appeal...

[beerguy55]

22 minutes ago, buckyswider said:

Thanks guys!  Geez, I'm fairly certain I've seen Cowboy Joe West deny a catcher's request for an appeal...

You have not.

What you've seen is many MLB umpires refusing the batter's request to appeal a swing/strike call.

[noumpere]

42 minutes ago, buckyswider said:

Thanks guys!  Geez, I'm fairly certain I've seen Cowboy Joe West deny a catcher's request for an appeal...

1) There might be a "game management" reason it happened.

2) Just because Joe West gets away with it doesn't mean any of us should try it.

3) You might be mistaken on what you saw.

[ArchAngel72]

I have always been told.

 

Just do the dang appeal  

 

then if the coach batter or dugout is ugly about the call its not you its the BU they are mad at   😆

[Velho]

33 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

I have always been told.

Agreed, though I've been told many things I haven't been smart enough to follow

 

 

[Lou B]

I allow the appeal unless I'm working Solo !!! 

[beerguy55]

52 minutes ago, Lou B said:

I allow the appeal unless I'm working Solo !!! 

Allow it anyway.  The first or third base coach will always agree with you.

[834k3r]

I've even allowed the appeal when my partner was in C...

[UMP45]

1 hour ago, 834k3r said:

I've even allowed the appeal when my partner was in C...

Why wouldn't you?

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, 834k3r said:

I've even allowed the appeal when my partner was in C...

You say that (or I read that) as if it were something unusual

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

You say that (or I read that) as if it were something unusual

Only thing I can figure is the … made it a troll and you/we were hooked😊

[The Man in Blue]

6 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

You have not.

What you've seen is many MLB umpires refusing the batter's request to appeal a swing/strike call.

 

[steps out from behind the keyboard, removes mask with left hand, points at screen]

DID HE SEE IT?

 

[834k3r]

16 hours ago, noumpere said:

You say that (or I read that) as if it were something unusual

 

16 hours ago, UMP45 said:

Why wouldn't you?

I think I'm being misunderstood here. I'm trying say that I'll give an appeal--even when there's no one in A or D. It's not the best view for the validation of the appeal, but if F2 wants an appeal...

[noumpere]

37 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

 

I think I'm being misunderstood here. I'm trying say that I'll give an appeal--even when there's no one in A or D. It's not the best view for the validation of the appeal, but if F2 wants an appeal...

You're not being misunderstood.  We all grant the appeal and go to our partner in B or C.  It's a perfectly valid view.

[BigBlue4u]

I believe the NFHS made a half swing appeal optional many years ago after coaches started requesting appeals even with minimal bat movement.   When the mandatory rule was in effect and a coach would ask me to go for help on a minimal swing, I would do it, the first time.  After that, between innings, I would tell the coach, "Coach, you are making a travesty of the game. Keep it up and you are going to get ejected."  That stopped it every time.

[Senor Azul]

I can tell you that the OBR check swing appeal rule is relatively new—it entered the rule book as a case book comment in 1976. Prior to that no appeal on a check swing was allowed—the plate umpire’s decision was final. Then all the case book interpretations were incorporated into the rule book proper in 1978 where it became rule 9.02(c) Comment.

From the early 1900s to the early 1950s MLB used 2-man umpire crews--it wasn’t until 1952 that the MLB went to a 4-man crew for all regular season games. There was no rule that required the plate umpire to ask for help so he didn’t. The defense had no recourse if a home plate umpire’s vision was blocked or some other circumstance prevented him from gauging whether a batter swung at a pitch. I think this was the impetus for a change to the rule—it was perceived as a denial to the defense.

Of course, there were probably other factors involved as well.

[Senor Azul]

From the 1945 NFHS baseball rule book (the very first edition):

Rule 10-1

Art. 3…There shall be NO DISPUTE OR APPEAL on any Umpire’s decision involving accuracy of judgment such as whether a hit is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball or whether a runner is safe or out. In such matters, the Umpire shall not reverse his decision. But if there is a reasonable doubt about some decision being in conflict with the rules, the Coach or Captain may appeal for a reversal. The Umpire making the decision may ask another Umpire for information before acting on such appeal. No umpire shall criticize or interfere with another Umpire’s decision unless asked by the one making it…

2020 FED rule 10-1 ART. 4 . . . Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as whether a hit is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. But if there is reasonable doubt about some decision being in conflict with the rules, the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made. The umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked by the one making it.

a. The umpire-in-chief sometimes asks for aid from the base umpire when there is a question as to whether a batter’s “half swing” is such as to be called a strike. As an aid in deciding, the umpire may note whether the swing carried the barrel of the bat past the body of the batter, but final decision is based on whether the batter actually struck at the ball.

It appears to me that the FED has always used the word may instead of must in describing how the plate umpire should respond to a check swing appeal.

[SeeingEyeDog]

@Senor Azul, I was trained under FED that a Coach or player must come to the plate umpire with a check swing appeal. We do not acknowledge appeals made by anyone directly to a base umpire. My question is, the rule citation you made indicates a "Coach or captain may appeal for a reversal..."

If no captain was declared prior to the start of the game, is the correct game management by the umpiring crew to then ONLY permit a Coach to make a check swing appeal directly to the plate umpire?

~Dawg

[Senor Azul]

Mr. SeeingEyeDog, you raise a very interesting point. As soon as I read your post I realized that I had never given any thought to team captains. And yet the FED rule book has two rules that mention captains and apparently have been in the book forever (currently numbered 1-1-2 and 10-1-4).

I do not remember my local association ever discussing team captains. I vaguely recall a few times a team captain attending a pre-game conference at the plate. Funny thing is that there are some mentions of captains in the annual online interpretations—here’s one from 2008

2008 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations

Another rule, Rule 1-1-2, suggests the importance of both the captain and the head coach being in communication with the umpires. Both must be present at the pre-game conference, and the head coach is responsible for ensuring that his or her team is in compliance and will adhere to good sportsmanship. The rule also requires the name, shirt number, position and batting order of each starter to be placed on the lineup card. The name and shirt number of each eligible substitute should also be placed on the card, but are not required.

And, believe it or not, there is an actual entry in the 2016 BRD about team captains. Anyway, I am not ignoring your question. I did check a couple of case books (1972 and 1983) and did not find any case plays about team captains. I have several case books from the 1950s and 1960s but they are stored away at the moment. I will try to access them in the near future. I wonder what other high school umpire associations have said and done about these two rules? Perhaps we need our very own Mr. lawump to help us with how important this question of team captains is to the NFHS?