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buckyswider

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About buckyswider

  • Birthday 07/20/1963

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  1. But that qualifier is only present in point 3....
  2. Leafing through the rulebook in preparation for my first fastpitch softball game in quite some time. I came across this rule that has, for the moment, confused me. SECTION 4 - RUNNERS ARE ENTITLED TO ADVANCE WITH LIABILITY TO BE PUT OUT A. (Fast/Modified Pitch) When the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand on the delivery. B. On a thrown ball or a fair batted ball that is not blocked. C. On a thrown ball that hits an umpire. D. When a legally caught fly ball is first touched by a defensive player. E. If a fair ball: 1 Contacts an umpire or a runner after having passed a fielder other than the pitcher, provided no other fielder had a chance to make an out, or: 2 When a fair batted ball has been touched by a fielder, including the pitcher, and the runner did not intentionally interfere with the batted ball or the fielder attempting to field the batted ball. Effect - Section 4A-E: The ball remains live. F. (Men’s & Women’s Slow Pitch) Runners may advance when the ball reaches home plate, or: 1 When a pitched ball is batted. 2 Until the pitcher has possession of the ball in the infield and all playing action has ceased. 3 (Slow Pitch with stealing) Runners may advance when a pitched ball, legal or illegal, reaches the front edge of home plate. 4 When a pitched ball that hits behind home plate and strikes the umpire, or a thrown ball by the catcher that strikes the umpire. Exception: 3and 4 do not apply to Master's, Senior's Coed, Junior Olympic Girls and Junior Olympic Boys 10U, 12U, 14U, and 16U Slow Pitch (Bolding mine, as they are the points of my confusion). Section F seems to refer to, given no other context, a pitched ball. Unless I've been asleep way too long, runners in Men's and Women's slow pitch cannot advance on a pitched ball unless it becomes a batted ball. And clause 4: Given the indentation of this under section F, I think we are to assume that it's application is Men's and Women's slow pitch, right? Again, as with F, there's no advancement in slow pitch, right? Quite possibly it's been too long a day and I'm missing something really, really, obvious...so please help. Thanks!
  3. Yep, that's why I said "maybe I should've DDB'd an obstruction". Revisionist history and all that, but I'd like to think I would've come back to that had it been consequential to the eventual outcome of the play...but as it was, F3 gave up all efforts to retrieve the ball and instead was chirping for interference. So R1 never broke stride and got to second without a play. Still though, yep, when my brain decided it wasn't INT I should've stuck out my right fist.
  4. Although it's a bit dated (from the USA March 2014 interpretations newsletter), it appears my call is correct as per USA interpretations. (Well, maybe not- maybe I should've DDB'd an obstruction!). PLAY: With R1 on 2B, B2 hits a ground ball to F6 who tries to field the ball and bobbles it. R1, trying to advance to 3B, attempts to get around F6 who is picking up the deflected batted ball. In doing so, R1 bumps F6 advancing to 3B. The umpire calls “dead ball” and calls R1 out for interference because the ball has not passed F6 and F6 still had an opportunity to make an out on B2. Ruling: Incorrect ruling. If protested correctly, the umpire should reverse his ruling and “obstruction” should be called since this interference was not intentional. When a runner intentionally interferes with any defensive player having the opportunity to make an out with the deflected batted ball, the ball is dead and the runner is out. All other runners must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference. Rule 8, Section 7J[4] USA has an index of all their rule clarifications, and I didn't see this one initially because the text didn't specifically say anything about "Deflected" like the other one I went to (where it deflects from one player to another)- this one just is titled "Interference on Runner". But I happened to notice the 8,7J[4] reference in the index so I checked it out and, lo and behold, it's extremely similar to my play.
  5. Thanks for the reply BB! Do you have specific knowledge that this is also a USA/ASA thing? Based on your response, I did some googling on the phrase, and there's a few other threads (none here) where they debate this and the consensus seems to be it's only a FED thing. And not just pushing the issue because, as much as I want to have been right tonight, that ship has sailed and I want to make sure I'm right NEXT time. Wondering if maybe this is something I should submit to USA for their monthly rules clarification newsletter...
  6. p.s. my hands may or may not have made it to about stomach level before my brain decided on "no call", which may have been a little impetus for the defense's ire (yes, i was working solo)
  7. USA softball rules. (Although as is common, if codes disagree please point it out for those who work multiple rulesets). R1 on first, one out. Hard one hopper to 1B/F3. As R1 is getting close to F3, ball clanks off of F3's glove and back towards the plate- ends up about 4 or 5 feet in front of F3. As F3 starts to stride forward to retrieve the ball, R1 collides with F3. I made no call, which of course elicited lots of noise from the defensive team. Am I right to consider this a "deflected ball" as described in USA 8.7(J)(4) or could I conceivably had extended the protection afforded in 8.7(J)(1) to F3? SECTION 7 - THE RUNNER IS OUT . . . J. When a runner interferes: 1 With a fielder attempting to field a batted fair ball or a foul fly ball, or 2 With a fielder attempting to throw the ball, or 3 With a thrown ball. Effect: a The ball is dead. b The runner is out. c The batter-runner is awarded first base. d Runners must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference. e If the interference, in the umpire's judgment, is an attempt to prevent a double play and occurs before the runner is put out, the immediate trailing runner shall also be called out. f If the interference prevents the fielder from catching a routine fly ball, fair or foul, with ordinary effort, the batter is also out. 4 Intentionally with any defensive player having the opportunity to make an out with the deflected batted ball.
  8. Thanks guys! Geez, I'm fairly certain I've seen Cowboy Joe West deny a catcher's request for an appeal...
  9. Hi all, I'm certain I've seen situations in the past where a catcher has asked the HP umpire to appeal a check swing called a ball, and HP ump has refused the request. Throughout my career I've always been under the impression that it was at the discretion of the HP ump whether to ask for help on this or not. Somebody now has pointed out to me the 8.0.2(c) comment (emphasis mine): So have I been wrong all these years? Can anyone else recall a situation where the HP ump refused to appeal when requested? Thanks!
  10. I guess this is sort of an aside to the entire point of the discussion in this particular forum- which is (IMO) more about mechanics, interpretations, and rules- but in the end, does anyone have an opinion on whether the ball was actually fair or foul? I haven't seen any angles or videos that show me enough to even try to decide. Again, it's an aside to our discussion, but what does anyone think?
  11. just a point of clarity- on the pitch we had R1, not R2. So in the case of (B), it would have to be (IMO) overwhelming evidence that F7 didn't ever give up on the play after U3's signal.
  12. Two related but somewhat tangential questions about this play: 1- what is the UH's duty to signify that the run counted? Unlike many Gnat's fans on social media, I'm pretty certain that the confirmation shouldn't be made until the possibility of appeal has passed. Otherwise, it gives the defense an unfair advantage. (Also, I guess a case can be made that such signalling is not "public"- it's to ensure the official scorer- and only the official scorer- that s/he has recorded the play properly). Jaska/Roder (older edition) is silent on this. 2- What is the proper defensive appeal procedure after a third out but after time has been called? I didn't see any U signal it, but the Pie-Rats manager running onto the field was effectively a time out call. If the defense was savvy enough to have asked for a subsequent appeal, does the pitcher have to toe the rubber (without a batter in the vicinity of the batter's box!) to put the ball back in-play so an appeal could be made?? Thanks!
  13. Thanks, I read that thread and did a little more surfing. I think I see where I screwed up. Shaking the cobwebs off, I recall I would always lean towards an "attempt" when a batter/runner made a turn of more than a foot or two to the left on a play where there's a potential advance- like an overthrown ball. The reasoning behind that is that I always thought that in this scenario, the b/r would in fact gain an unfair advantage should in fact they decide to try for second. Judgement call for sure, but I always leaned that way. Fast forward, I forgot my thought process vis-a-vis the rule in that situation, and only remembered the "advantage" part. I'm not excusing myself or trying to justify myself- I just value learning why I made a mistake or had a misconception so I don't repeat it in the future. But thanks for setting me straight here. I'm sure I'll be around these parts a lot as my return to the diamond continues!
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