Lil' help with this no-balk call?

[Velho]

https://streamable.com/mc02ui

Can anyone help me explain this one to my dad?

[Richvee]

I’d like another angle. But that’s borderline

. 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

https://streamable.com/mc02ui

Can anyone help me explain this one to my dad?

The explanation is that lefties get away with murder and the runner's coach didn't remind him of that.

[SH0102]

Sure looks like part of his free/stride leg broke the back plane of the rubber but U1 would have best angle of it

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, SH0102 said:

Sure looks like part of his free/stride leg broke the back plane of the rubber but U1 would have best angle of it

I don't see any part breaking the back plane from that angle but OBR only addresses the free foot. That was a step balk. I know because I just called one this week in HS from the "B" position. How this works is I and the MLB umps miss the first one and then ask themselves how did that runner get picked off so easily. Then we decide to focus on the step and call the second one. Then the pitcher stops using that move because the offensive coach, knowing that the balk call and the judgment of the step is hit or miss, is chewing on his R1s to stay closer.

[LMSANS]

I have called this. I had his foot moving forward.

[Catch18]

This is as close as I could get to freezing the frame of his foot at the top and going backward. I don’t think the whole foot crossed behind.

[Catch18]

One hell of a move for sure. 45° is very close here, it sure looked like went toward the plate. But who knows. This will keep guys closer for sure. Might be better than Pettitt’s move. If mlb guys study film, this would be on the syllabus.

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, SH0102 said:

Sure looks like part of his free/stride leg broke the back plane of the rubber but U1 would have best angle of it

Is that the criterion?

[SH0102]

23 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Is that the criterion?

I don’t know OBR very well, but in NCAA yes. Entire free foot or any part of leg

[Jimurray]

24 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

I don’t know OBR very well, but in NCAA yes. Entire free foot or any part of leg

So why opine on MLB?

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Catch18 said:

This is as close as I could get to freezing the frame of his foot at the top and going backward. I don’t think the whole foot crossed behind.

The OBR criteria is any part of the free foot past the back edge of the rubber. I don't think any part did 

[Catch18]

The OBR criteria is any part of the free foot past the back edge of the rubber. I don't think any part did 

Ok thanks for clarifying.

[maven]

It's possible the crew missed it. It's also possible that the camera angle makes the step look bad (more towards HP than 1B). 

Without another angle (or two), we can't know.

[noumpere]

11 hours ago, SH0102 said:

Sure looks like part of his free/stride leg broke the back plane of the rubber but U1 would have best angle of it

 

9 hours ago, SH0102 said:

I don’t know OBR very well, but in NCAA yes. Entire free foot or any part of leg

My question was rhetorical.

 

(I agree "entire" is the correct rule)

[ArchAngel72]

Damn good move if you ask me.  From the angle we see this from I got nothing.  Now someone in C maybe able to see if his step is more than the 45 he's allowed but that camera angle does not help.

Nasty move, NAS-T

 

[Catch18]

It's possible the crew missed it. It's also possible that the camera angle makes the step look bad (more towards HP than 1B). 
Without another angle (or two), we can't know.

I can stipulate to this.

[BLWizzRanger]

Novice question... What should an umpire in A, B, C, or D be looking at when a LHP makes this move? what do you look at?

I got the entire foot past the back edge of the plate, but I was trying to use the center of gravity movement toward home but there is a slight center of gravity movement, toward home, with a 45 degree step. 

What do you use?

[Senor Azul]

From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.24, p. 117):

The pitcher shall be charged with a balk when he [OBR 6.02(a)(1)]:

swings any part of his free foot past the back edge of the rubber and throws to first or third base. (Note that this violation is in reference only to the pitcher’s foot. If the knee of the pitcher’s free leg passes behind the back edge of the rubber but his foot does not, he may legally throw to first base or third base with no violation.)

[ArchAngel72]

Based on viewing angle I have knee past the back edge of the plate but the foot no, touching the front edge yes possibly some of it on the plate yes, non of it past it to me.  That angle on the step right about perfect to the 45 degree to me too..

 

[aaluck]

15 hours ago, Catch18 said:

it sure looked like went toward the plate.

Im with you.  I see him as going to the plate, without question.  Does that mean I maybe wouldn't have missed it? No.

[Ump242]

On 4/10/2022 at 3:23 PM, Velho said:

https://streamable.com/mc02ui

Can anyone help me explain this one to my dad?

That's really close, there's an imaginary 45° line we use to judge if the pitcher is stepping directly towards the base, will we get told in the high school unit is that if you see space between the legs from the plate umpire's perspective and he's (what's the right verbage?) Stepping towards first or third base respectively.  So I could see why in this video the plate umpire would not call it as there would definitely be space between the legs, showing the plate umpire that he was actually stepping directly towards first base.

Watching the video even at the angle that it's got, it looks like he's stepping directly on the 45° 'line', and since he's definitely making a step forward the plate umpire would definitely see a gap between its legs and not call a balk.

 

Also the foot never broke the rubber it was the knee that came close, and it has to be the foot that breaks the rubber before he actually has to deliver or go to second or fake the second

[Replacematt]

23 hours ago, Ump242 said:

That's really close, there's an imaginary 45° line we use to judge if the pitcher is stepping directly towards the base, will we get told in the high school unit is that if you see space between the legs from the plate umpire's perspective and he's (what's the right verbage?) Stepping towards first or third base respectively. 

Don't use a 45-degree line nor the concept of space between the legs. 

To determine if there has been distance and direction, look at where the free foot starts and where it lands. If there is discernable distance (the foot is in an entirely new spot) and the direction (drawing a line between the two spots) is towards the base to which they are throwing more than any other, it's legal.

The problem with looking for space is that there are pitchers who have it in their set position initially, and using that criterion means they'll get away with balking even if they put the free foot down in substantially the same place.

[Ump242]

15 minutes ago, Matt said:

The problem with looking for space is that there are pitchers who have it in their set position initially, and using that criterion means they'll get away with balking even if they put the free foot down in substantially the same place.

Agreed, and that makes total sense, thing is that depending on the level of ball, there might be some space (obr) or should be no space (fed) as that might signify the hybrid, and that has a few other issues mixed in

Because while in obr, where you are alot to pick off from the wind up, in fed you can't... Though to be honest, I haven't seen a wind up pick off yet

[Velho]

Thanks all. "Lefty's get away with murder" is the most digestible for him. LOL