Ejected Travel ball coaches

[Aluck]

Guys, 

I recently worked a Perfect Game tournament. After giving them several opportunities to stay in the game I finally ejected two coaches because they were out of control. After ejection they went to the fence rail next to dugout- I went over there and told them by rule they must be out of sight and sound. Umpire supervisor heard me say that and told me coaches are allowed to sit in the stands. After that, coaches stayed on the fence 10 feet from foul line (not even in the stands where they’re supposed to be) and continued to argue and entice fans throughout entirety of the game. As a matter of fact one of them tried to come back on the field.

Does anyone else around the country have these issues working travel ball? Why does no one have our back including umpire site supervisor?  

Something must change. This is a travesty to the game of baseball and it is ruining the integrity and the future of this game. Maybe we can all come together to form a union to get the pay and backing we all deserve and earn. 
 

Thank you. 

[Jimurray]

4 minutes ago, Aluck said:

Guys, 

I recently worked a Perfect Game tournament. After giving them several opportunities to stay in the game I finally ejected two coaches because they were out of control. After ejection they went to the fence rail next to dugout- I went over there and told them by rule they must be out of sight and sound. Umpire supervisor heard me say that and told me coaches are allowed to sit in the stands. After that, coaches stayed on the fence 10 feet from foul line (not even in the stands where they’re supposed to be) and continued to argue and entice fans throughout entirety of the game. As a matter of fact one of them tried to come back on the field.

Does anyone else around the country have these issues working travel ball? Why does no one have our back including umpire site supervisor?  

Something must change. This is a travesty to the game of baseball and it is ruining the integrity and the future of this game. Maybe we can all come together to form a union to get the pay and backing we all deserve and earn. 
 

Thank you. 

If they use pure OBR without any "Perfect Game" conduct rules, if they exist, I think the rulebook would allow them in the stands. Once they are there I don't give a sht what is happening in the stands. No one will have your back unless you vote with your feet but in the meantime focus on the field and not what is behind you.

[wolfe_man]

9 hours ago, Jimurray said:

No one will have your back unless you vote with your feet but in the meantime focus on the field and not what is behind you.

Good advice here. 

You can only control one thing ultimately: you.

1. If you take the games, go in knowing that this is an issue around the country for PG from what I hear.   There are numerous complaints of it on this site alone. If you go, you're basically agreeing to their rules (or lack thereof).
2. Don't get rabbit ears.  You wouldn't respond to about any other fan, so these guys stopped existing when you tossed 'em too.  Don't get rabbit ears and just focus on the game. FWIW, I know that is a tall order and sometimes is harder to do than others.

If you can't do #2, then don't do #1 is my advice. I genuinely feel for you.  I love the game and the kids.  I even enjoy some fan interaction at times, but when you have to throw someone you want your supervisor to have your back.  PG seems to be pay-to-play so no one can truly get tossed (for long or for distance from their tourneys).  If it's the only game in town, then it really limits your options.

[LRZ]

"After that, coaches stayed on the fence 10 feet from foul line (not even in the stands where they’re supposed to be) and continued to argue and entice fans throughout entirety of the game. As a matter of fact one of them tried to come back on the field."

Unacceptable, completely unacceptable. Stop play until they leave. In every sport of which I'm aware, there is a shortage of officials, attributed, in part, to abuse from coaches and fans. Why is it acceptable in baseball to ignore "the fence" as if they didn't exist? When it gets beyond a certain point, someone has to go. If the game administrator/umpire supervisor doesn't or won't back you up, consider packing up and going. It's not worth the aggravation. I have little tolerance for abusive behavior.

As always, IMO and YMMV.

[Catch18]

"After that, coaches stayed on the fence 10 feet from foul line (not even in the stands where they’re supposed to be) and continued to argue and entice fans throughout entirety of the game. As a matter of fact one of them tried to come back on the field."
Unacceptable, completely unacceptable. Stop play until they leave. In every sport of which I'm aware, there is a shortage of officials, attributed, in part, to abuse from coaches and fans. Why is it acceptable in baseball to ignore "the fence" as if they didn't exist? When it gets beyond a certain point, someone has to go. If the game administrator/umpire supervisor doesn't or won't back you up, consider packing up and going. It's not worth the aggravation. I have little tolerance for abusive behavior.
As always, IMO and YMMV.

Couldn’t agree any more.

[Aluck]

2 hours ago, LRZ said:

"After that, coaches stayed on the fence 10 feet from foul line (not even in the stands where they’re supposed to be) and continued to argue and entice fans throughout entirety of the game. As a matter of fact one of them tried to come back on the field."

Unacceptable, completely unacceptable. Stop play until they leave. In every sport of which I'm aware, there is a shortage of officials, attributed, in part, to abuse from coaches and fans. Why is it acceptable in baseball to ignore "the fence" as if they didn't exist? When it gets beyond a certain point, someone has to go. If the game administrator/umpire supervisor doesn't or won't back you up, consider packing up and going. It's not worth the aggravation. I have little tolerance for abusive behavior.

As always, IMO and YMMV.

I agree it is unacceptable. Next time I work a tournament I will eject no warnings given since they are allowed to go hang out in the stands. Trust me I have considered packing up and going and that is how my PG career will come to an end!  

[Aluck]

4 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

Good advice here. 

You can only control one thing ultimately: you.

1. If you take the games, go in knowing that this is an issue around the country for PG from what I hear.   There are numerous complaints of it on this site alone. If you go, you're basically agreeing to their rules (or lack thereof).
2. Don't get rabbit ears.  You wouldn't respond to about any other fan, so these guys stopped existing when you tossed 'em too.  Don't get rabbit ears and just focus on the game. FWIW, I know that is a tall order and sometimes is harder to do than others.

If you can't do #2, then don't do #1 is my advice. I genuinely feel for you.  I love the game and the kids.  I even enjoy some fan interaction at times, but when you have to throw someone you want your supervisor to have your back.  PG seems to be pay-to-play so no one can truly get tossed (for long or for distance from their tourneys).  If it's the only game in town, then it really limits your options.

I normally don't have rabbit ears... but it is hard not to when you eject a coach and he continues to scream at you from outside the fence when every rulebook at every level says ejected coach must be out of sight and sound. Unfortunately it is more about the money than umpires or integrity of the game. You don't see MLB managers, college or HS coaches get ejected and hang around the first row of the stands they leave and go to clubhouse or bus. So why are summer ball coaches not held to the same standard? Is it because there are no consequences to being ejected?

[wolfe_man]

1 minute ago, Aluck said:

Unfortunately it is more about the money than umpires or integrity of the game. You don't see MLB managers, college or HS coaches get ejected and hang around the first row of the stands they leave and go to clubhouse or bus. So why are summer ball coaches not held to the same standard? Is it because there are no consequences to being ejected?

I fully agree. There is no place for this in any level of ball. It is not professional, moral or anything else - but yet PG is known for this type of behavior in the umpire community.  I have no first-hand knowledge of PG, but everything I have heard about them is negative due to this type of behavior.

I couldn't take games there personally, but I understand why some might.   Judging by your comments above, I'd guess your time is coming when you walk away also.

I wish you the best.

[Velho]

2 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

I have no first-hand knowledge of PG, but everything I have heard about them is negative due to this type of behavior.

I have seen first hand how they compromise player safety (OF throwing up from dehydration in 112F heat and remaining in the game - but hey he'll be a 1st round draft pick!). I now understand more why the umpires didn't step in.

[Jimurray]

44 minutes ago, Aluck said:

I agree it is unacceptable. Next time I work a tournament I will eject no warnings given since they are allowed to go hang out in the stands. Trust me I have considered packing up and going and that is how my PG career will come to an end!  

Actually, if PG is using pure OBR, you can require the coaches in the stands to move away from the dugout and change to civvies. 
“(d) When a manager, player, coach or trainer is ejected from a game, he shall leave the field immediately and take no further part in that game. He shall remain in the clubhouse or change to street clothes and either leave the park or take a seat in the grandstand well removed from the vicinity of his team’s bench or bullpen.”

[Velho]

14 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Actually, if PG is using pure OBR, you can require the coaches in the stands to move away from the dugout and change to civvies. 
“(d) When a manager, player, coach or trainer is ejected from a game, he shall leave the field immediately and take no further part in that game. He shall remain in the clubhouse or change to street clothes and either leave the park or take a seat in the grandstand well removed from the vicinity of his team’s bench or bullpen.”

Ha! Only if they recognize you  

[Recontra]

Just for comparison, most of the "good" travel ball tourneys in Washington, Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona are run by Premier Sports. Many teams play across state lines for various tournaments. Ejections are memorialized, and the ejection policy is enforced (even across state lines). It works. Here it is:

"Ejection Policy

• Players / Coach Ejections

• Any player or coach ejection will result in a one-game suspension, to be served in the next tournament game
• For all player ejections, the player should remain in the dugout

• For all coach ejections, the coach must leave the complex immediately and be out of site from game officials. Failure to comply with this directive will result in forfeiture of the game

• If the same player or coach is ejected for a 2nd time (either in the current tournament or any future Premier Sports Tournaments event), he or she will be suspended for the remainder of the tournament
• If the same player or coach is ejected for a 3rd time, that player or coach will be suspended for the remainder of the current tournament season

• Fan / Parent Ejections

• Any fan or parent ejections will result in removal from the complex. The fan or parent in question will not be permitted back into the complex for the remainder of the tournament
• A second fan or parent ejection for the same team will result in the removal of ALL FANS for that given team. This fan restriction will remain in place for that team for the remainder of the current event"

[SH0102]

If a TD is worried about teams not returning if they are allowed to be ejected for abhorrent behavior, why do they want those teams?

GOOD teams want good tournaments, and if you run a good one, you will not be starved for “customers”.

 A TD can “lose” an abhorrent umpire who ejects at free will for un-defendable reasons, so fearing a legit ejection is horrible and I would not work for those people. 

[tpatience]

Adam, even though that supervisor is your “boss”, don’t let them tell you that the coach can stay. You knew it was wrong. Don’t let them push you around just because they pay a lot of money. Tell that supervisor that it’s between you and the coach leaving. They need you more than they need that coach. Was Wes the supervisor?

[Catch18]

I have seen first hand how they compromise player safety (OF throwing up from dehydration in 112F heat and remaining in the game - but hey he'll be a 1st round draft pick!). I now understand more why the umpires didn't step in.

This seems to be a parent and/or coaching issue. Not to be misconstrued saying a TD can’t/shouldn’t cancel/reschedule. But they’re in charge of their own kid.

I spent 10 years in a major capital city rec & parks program running youth travel tournaments. Some w/ ~40 teams, up to ones w/ ~120 teams. I never took away someone’s right to be a parent. Also, I have a nice unequivocal record of never “letting a coach/parent back in.” Got ejected? GTFO. No appeals heard. And we’ll eval if you get to come back for Sunday. Were there many I stood right at a field and witnessed? Yep, sure did. Were there some I said internally, “self, did you just see Bob EJ that guy way too quickly?” Yep, sure did. I didn’t care. I needed my umpires way more than I needed some ****head coach/parent. See you next month at the next event.

[dumbdumb]

assuming this is Perfect Game USA,(and maybe they are not one and the same), the umpire coordinator for PG USA is the supervisor of umpires for the Great American, Heartland, Lone Star, and Sooner Athletic Conferences. He supervises and coordinates baseball umpires to work college baseball and trains umpires through camps and clinics. He is also an NCAA Umpire Supervisor since 1996.

Give him a call and ask what's up with the deportment of coaches for the organization he so proudly supports, since it does not sound like that area is up to par within the organization.

 

[Aluck]

17 hours ago, tpatience said:

Adam, even though that supervisor is your “boss”, don’t let them tell you that the coach can stay. You knew it was wrong. Don’t let them push you around just because they pay a lot of money. Tell that supervisor that it’s between you and the coach leaving. They need you more than they need that coach. Was Wes the supervisor?

So if I tell that supervisor it’s between me and coach and coach doesn’t leave don’t resume the game? Wes is assigner. Tim was the supervisor 

[Mudisfun]

So your umpire supervisor basically allowed the ejected coach to remain, go into the stands and ratchet up the parents and he was good with this?

WOW.

That would be the very last time I ever worked a game for this person. This is completely unacceptable at all levels, not just as a baseball rules scenario, but how we as a society are expected to behave. There is no way an ejected member of the coaching staff is going to go into the stands and now be a 'fan'. When he is riding you, he is 100% only trying to rile up his fan base against you and the officiating crew. 

The one guy who should be protecting you as well as the integrity of the event just said in HUGE NEON LETTERS than the teams paying a fee mean more to them than your mental and or physical well being. What an awesome lesson every adult participating just taught those kids on the field. I can do whatever I want and there are no repercussions for my actions.

** BING ** new game assignment notification from Wes.

Declined. Reason? I have more respect for myself than you do for your staff.

 

[cyclonehokiece]

20 hours ago, SH0102 said:

If a TD is worried about teams not returning if they are allowed to be ejected for abhorrent behavior, why do they want those teams?

GOOD teams want good tournaments, and if you run a good one, you will not be starved for “customers”.

 A TD can “lose” an abhorrent umpire who ejects at free will for un-defendable reasons, so fearing a legit ejection is horrible and I would not work for those people. 

I couldn’t say it any better.  I had a UIC and TD call this “addition by subtraction.”  If it gets out you put on good events and don’t take crap, good teams will keep coming.  You do the opposite the good ones won’t.  Same with umpires.

Same goes for me when I take assignments.  I have a few organizations I will no longer work for because they run their games poorly, have bad game/tournament management, and/or don’t respect the umpire (this includes paying in a timely fashion).  More than enough ball to fill my schedule.  

[tpatience]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:34 AM, Aluck said:

So if I tell that supervisor it’s between me and coach and coach doesn’t leave don’t resume the game? Wes is assigner. Tim was the supervisor 

That’s what I would do. I don’t know if you’re in the position to do that. But we both know what Tim is like so there that 

[mac266]

Travel ball is full of batSH*# crazy people.  The only ejections I've ever had were in travel ball tournaments.  Two of three were coaches in 11 year-old or younger brackets.  One was a 16 year-old player.

[MadMax]

On 4/5/2022 at 1:02 PM, mac266 said:

Travel ball is full of batSH*# crazy people.  The only ejections I've ever had were in travel ball tournaments.

Directly related to Accountability. If a college coach gets acts like an a$$ and/or gets ejected, there's an AD or a Board of Regents he's accountable to. If a high school coach acts like an a$$ and/or gets ejected, there's an AD and/or a School Board he's accountable to. If a coach within a (local) league acts like an a$$ and/or gets ejected, there's a league governing body he's accountable to.

If a travel / tournament coach acts like an a$$ and/or gets ejected... who is he accountable to??

If you expect the Tournament Director to hold him accountable, that coach may have a familial relationship with the TD, or the TD may have not "cashed the check" yet, and doesn't have the terms or fortitude to enforce the forfeiture of the club's fees should the coach object or pull out his team based on his... outburst and our (umpires) dealings with him.

[mw94]

This is  from me & Max neck of the woods. As far I know so far the baseball season here in AZ has been fairly peaceful most of this was Football, Basketball & Soccer

https://www.azfamily.com/2022/03/31/profanity-fights-arizona-high-school-sports-rampant-officials-allowed-shut-down-games/ 

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

If you expect the Tournament Director to hold him accountable, that coach may have a familial relationship with the TD, or the TD may have not "cashed the check" yet, and doesn't have the terms or fortitude to enforce the forfeiture of the club's fees should the coach object or pull out his team based on his... outburst and our (umpires) dealings with him.

This is the worst part, and (outside cozy relationships) I don't understand why TD's are so reluctant to hold them accountable.  I've been  a TD...my wife has been a TD.  And we're of the same mind...I got your money weeks ago...it's in the bank...I've paid for the umps and the diamonds...you're not getting a red F*#King cent back, and if you, coach, want to take your ball/team and go home, then "happy trails"...I'll worry about team recruitment for next year's tournament...next year. 

I ripped a coach a new asshole right in front crowded bleachers for his incessant complaining of umpires, field maintenance staff and tournament volunteers..."if I hear another word from you the parking lot is over there, and if you want to take your team then I have zero F*#Ks to give, because, quite literally, NOBODY wants you here."   Umps and I had a good time that evening.

The reality is, if you run a good tournament, you are turning teams away every year, not begging to find new ones.

Yes, I want the teams, I want the players, I want  a good tournament and not have a round robin bracket with forfeits...but I will have no tolerance for any kind of abuse of the umpires, the other paying teams and especially the volunteers.   Yes, I'll go to bat for the paying customer too...but 99 times out of a 100, they're just flexing, and they're fostering a toxic culture on their team.

[mac266]

On 4/6/2022 at 2:30 PM, MadMax said:

Directly related to Accountability. If a college coach gets acts like an a$$ and/or gets ejected, there's an AD or a Board of Regents he's accountable to. If a high school coach acts like an a$$ and/or gets ejected, there's an AD and/or a School Board he's accountable to. If a coach within a (local) league acts like an a$$ and/or gets ejected, there's a league governing body he's accountable to.

If a travel / tournament coach acts like an a$$ and/or gets ejected... who is he accountable to??

If you expect the Tournament Director to hold him accountable, that coach may have a familial relationship with the TD, or the TD may have not "cashed the check" yet, and doesn't have the terms or fortitude to enforce the forfeiture of the club's fees should the coach object or pull out his team based on his... outburst and our (umpires) dealings with him.

Exactly.  In my state, a high school coach that gets ejected also gets suspended for an additional game, and it affects whether or not he will remain employed as a coach.  In travel ball, they're back on the field in the very next game.