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8u HC ejected for arguing balls and strikes, throws clipboard at me, cops called


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8u HC was arguing that I called two strikes on his batter in the other batters box. I call the outside strike in this level but not that crazy. Catchers are this bad at framing in 8u?

Then when the other team was batting I didn't call an inside strike for his pitcher. I was not calling it inside either way. He said i needed to call it in the other box both ways. I thought it was clear by this point in the game I called an outside strike and not an inside strike. He tells me I need to be better and that's terrible. He keeps going so I give him a warning and he's like "Okay, give me a warning! I don't care!" 

Before the next inning starts he's in the dugout dropping f bombs in front of his 8 year olds about me calling that inside pitch a ball. Just enough so I can hear it. I wish I ran him here. 

Next inning starts and I call a strike and he's telling someone in the dugout that I don't know what I'm doing. I call time and ask if he cares to repeat that and he says "You don't know what you're doing." 

Me: "You're out of here." 

Then he throws his clipboard at me and walks away, comes back up to the fence and says "We're gonna have a talk about this" and keeps moving. 

People on both sides were shocked and one person shouted "AY, that's assault brotha!!" I called 911 in the half inning and told them what happened. Police later arrived in another half inning and I informed them of what happened.  Cop said he didn't see a reason to put cuffs on HC but I did neglect to mention how he threatened to come find me after the game or how you're trespassing if you haven't left the area after getting ejected from a LL game. Then another parent comes over and tells me to get back on the field, to do my job and stop my nonsense. I didn't know calling the cops because someone threw a clipboard at me and said he'd talk with me about this later in a threatening tone was nonsense. 

Why do I feel i have to start packing during my games now? I don't need idiots throwing SH*# at me and threatening to come find me after the game because they think I'm cheating their kid out of a game nobody will remember in 5 years. 

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Not that anyone asked, here's my two cents (both as an umpire who was nicknamed "Mr. Red Ass" by his classmates at umpire school and as an assignor of high school umpires). 1.  There are not enou

As a building contractor, I'm offended by your disdain of hammers. Hammers are WAY smarter than most coaches I know! Now a bag of rocks........maybe.

5 years? Try 5 hours.  Coaches and parents like this are why youth sports ad a whole are crap now, why no one wants to be an umpire, and why kids burn out on sports. I don’t want to in any way co

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15 minutes ago, MulletUmpTheSecond said:

8u HC was arguing that I called two strikes on his batter in the other batters box. I call the outside strike in this level but not that crazy. Catchers are this bad at framing in 8u?

Then when the other team was batting I didn't call an inside strike for his pitcher. I was not calling it inside either way. He said i needed to call it in the other box both ways. I thought it was clear by this point in the game I called an outside strike and not an inside strike. He tells me I need to be better and that's terrible. He keeps going so I give him a warning and he's like "Okay, give me a warning! I don't care!" 

Before the next inning starts he's in the dugout dropping f bombs in front of his 8 year olds about me calling that inside pitch a ball. Just enough so I can hear it. I wish I ran him here. 

Next inning starts and I call a strike and he's telling someone in the dugout that I don't know what I'm doing. I call time and ask if he cares to repeat that and he says "You don't know what you're doing." 

Me: "You're out of here." 

Then he throws his clipboard at me and walks away, comes back up to the fence and says "We're gonna have a talk about this" and keeps moving. 

People on both sides were shocked and one person shouted "AY, that's assault brotha!!" I called 911 in the half inning and told them what happened. Police later arrived in another half inning and I informed them of what happened.  Cop said he didn't see a reason to put cuffs on HC but I did neglect to mention how he threatened to come find me after the game or how you're trespassing if you haven't left the area after getting ejected from a LL game. Then another parent comes over and tells me to get back on the field, to do my job and stop my nonsense. I didn't know calling the cops because someone threw a clipboard at me and said he'd talk with me about this later in a threatening tone was nonsense. 

Why do I feel i have to start packing during my games now? I don't need idiots throwing SH*# at me and threatening to come find me after the game because they think I'm cheating their kid out of a game nobody will remember in 5 years. 

5 years? Try 5 hours.  Coaches and parents like this are why youth sports ad a whole are crap now, why no one wants to be an umpire, and why kids burn out on sports.

I don’t want to in any way come across as defending this a-hole, but for future learning, the one thing you need to take out of your repertoire is the “care to repeat that”?

If you said that on the street, everyone knows you’re challenging the person, daring them, provoking them.  Never be that guy as an umpire.

If it’s bad enough to address it, you can warn or eject, don’t do anything else.

You come across as the aggressor when you go to them and elicit their comment from them.  Don’t give any fuel to their fire, and it should be obvious to everyone the coach is the aggressor and improper one

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You didn’t help yourself much here.

Warn much earlier. I’m not sure of your rules set but, after you warn, have a very short leash with the coach. Anything further, I mean anything, dump him.

You called the police from the field? Huh?

He was dropping F bombs in his dugout in front of 8 year olds and you didn’t dump him?

You created a bunch of your own problems here.


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@MulletUmpTheSecond, I see this is your first post...welcome to the forum, brother.

I'm going to disagree SLIGHTLY with Brother @SH0102 and say don't delete "Would you care to repeat that?", just learn when and how to use it. Let's be clear...in the situation as you described above? This was NOT a time to use that phrase. Brother @catsbackr was correct in steering you towards a more direct route of the warning and ejection. And that's based on the coach's words and conduct.

Now in another situation...let's say it's early in the game and you have a manager (not an assistant) chirping you about your zone. I think it's perfectly acceptable there to keep a stoic face, calm, even voice and ask, "(Coach's name), could you please repeat that?" The verbal judo here is what you are REALLY saying is, "Coach, I know what you said and I'm giving you an opportunity to rethink your situation." Maybe there are managers who do come back doubly strong and immediately chirp you again about your zone. We can warn them immediately. It's been my experience that most managers when given that question, will rethink their situation.

I would also encourage you to consider, "Coach (or even player), what do I have to do to keep you in this game today/tonight?" or even, "Coach, if you continue down this path, you will be...(pick the right one) warned/issued a written warning/restricted to the dugout/ejected." Remember, this is 2021 not 1921! We are not trying to win arguments! We are trying to shutdown problems and get the coach to return to the dugout and resume the ballgame.

Consider your own personality in your everyday life...are you a Red A$$ who is always looking for an argument from every body? Or are you laid back? Whatever your natural personality is...embrace that on the field as an umpire. The best umpires I have worked with know when it's time to be a Red A$$ and when it's time to try and let things burn out.

The hardest part about being an umpire is administering the game and engaging with the personalities. There is no secret method. There are tools that we develop with experience and time. Ask every umpire you work with, "How do you handle situations?" and then close your mouth and take notes. You keep adding those answers to your personal stew of umpiring and you're going to get lots of tools and techniques. Most umpire associations and or leagues have a discipline protocol. Make sure you clearly understand what that is and employ it properly.

~Dawg

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53 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

5 years? Try 5 hours.  Coaches and parents like this are why youth sports ad a whole are crap now, why no one wants to be an umpire, and why kids burn out on sports.

I don’t want to in any way come across as defending this a-hole, but for future learning, the one thing you need to take out of your repertoire is the “care to repeat that”?

If you said that on the street, everyone knows you’re challenging the person, daring them, provoking them.  Never be that guy as an umpire.

If it’s bad enough to address it, you can warn or eject, don’t do anything else.

You come across as the aggressor when you go to them and elicit their comment from them.  Don’t give any fuel to their fire, and it should be obvious to everyone the coach is the aggressor and improper one

5:00 minute mark here. I don’t have an issue with asking “what was that?” 
 

 

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17 minutes ago, Thatsnotyou said:

5:00 minute mark here. I don’t have an issue with asking “what was that?” 
 

 

Everyone is allowed to their opinions and comfort zones of course, but I see zero reason for it.  I guess if you actually didn’t hear them?

If you did, it’s either bad enough to address or it isn’t.  If it is, just warn them or eject them.  What’s the point of baiting them?

You can do the stare, or the “wave the hand”, without verbally baiting the coach for all to hear

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1 hour ago, SH0102 said:

Everyone is allowed to their opinions and comfort zones of course, but I see zero reason for it.  I guess if you actually didn’t hear them?

If you did, it’s either bad enough to address or it isn’t.  If it is, just warn them or eject them.  What’s the point of baiting them?

You can do the stare, or the “wave the hand”, without verbally baiting the coach for all to hear

It’s not baiting them. It’s giving the coach a chance to re think his foolish comment. He can choose to repeat what he said, and deal with the consequences. Or, he can decide he wants to stay in the game, and answer accordingly. 

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23 minutes ago, Richvee said:

It’s not baiting them. It’s giving the coach a chance to re think his foolish comment. He can choose to repeat what he said, and deal with the consequences. Or, he can decide he wants to stay in the game, and answer accordingly. 

If they said something that warrants an ejection, why would you go and tell them to say it again?  Why not just say you’re not tolerating that and warn them or eject them?

I get what you’re saying about re-thinking behavior, but if you’re gonna eject them for repeating what they said, why would you invite them to?  That is literally the definition of baiting.  
 

Would they repeat it if you didn’t tell them to?  If it’s ejection worthy on a repeat, it’s ejection worthy when they first said it, but without you telling them to repeat, they’re the bad guy in everyone’s eyes.

A neutral observer sees an umpire say for all to hear “want to repeat that?” Makes you the aggressor

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11 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Ok, I'll bite...

So, @SH0102...you're saying that if an 8U manager chirps you about your zone...your ONLY response is an ejection?

~Dawg

Umm…no…I said repeatedly either warn or eject.  We are supposed to be in control, the most Professional person on the field.

If you want to bait them into an ejection instead of just doing it, more power, I’ll just warn them and say we’re done discussing balls and strikes, and if does it again (prolonged), eject 

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9 hours ago, catsbackr said:

You didn’t help yourself much here.

Warn much earlier. I’m not sure of your rules set but, after you warn, have a very short leash with the coach. Anything further, I mean anything, dump him.

You called the police from the field? Huh?

He was dropping F bombs in his dugout in front of 8 year olds and you didn’t dump him?

You created a bunch of your own problems here.


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Yes I called the cops. He threw a clipboard at me and said he'd find me after the game AND remained in the area. He didn't give me much of a reason to believe he didn't have bad intentions. I also usually let profanity slide unless it's explicitly directed at me. He told other people I ####### sucked. Not me personally. 

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6 minutes ago, MulletUmpTheSecond said:

I also usually let profanity slide unless it's explicitly directed at me.

No. 8U through HS, no.

 

8 minutes ago, MulletUmpTheSecond said:

He told other people I ####### sucked. Not me personally.

Personal, profane, persistent = good-bye.

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13 hours ago, Richvee said:

It’s not baiting them. It’s giving the coach a chance to re think his foolish comment. He can choose to repeat what he said, and deal with the consequences. Or, he can decide he wants to stay in the game, and answer accordingly. 

It is absolutely baiting.

Either you heard it or you didn't. If you did, act accordingly. If not, it's no different from the other things we don't pick up during a game.

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18 hours ago, SH0102 said:

If they said something that warrants an ejection, why would you go and tell them to say it again?  Why not just say you’re not tolerating that and warn them or eject them?

I get what you’re saying about re-thinking behavior, but if you’re gonna eject them for repeating what they said, why would you invite them to?  That is literally the definition of baiting.  
 

Would they repeat it if you didn’t tell them to?  If it’s ejection worthy on a repeat, it’s ejection worthy when they first said it, but without you telling them to repeat, they’re the bad guy in everyone’s eyes.

A neutral observer sees an umpire say for all to hear “want to repeat that?” Makes you the aggressor

Sometimes game management is about establishing a relationship. Most knowledgeable coaches recognize that your offer to repeat themselves is an opportunity to correct their inappropriate comments. 

I would suggest that @Richvee is giving a pass to comments that are ejection worthy, but by affording the offender a chance to reflect on his transgression(s) is, in essence, saying that the warning has been issued without spelling it out in specific terms. If an umpire has no experience working with said coach, this pass may help the coach realize that he is working with an umpire who has some credibility and would rather keep the coach in the game than not.

On the other hand, if said coach insists on repeating the dumb comment(s), his ticket will be punched not only because of the comments but because said coach is dumber than a bag of hammers.

 

 

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23 hours ago, MulletUmpTheSecond said:

8u HC was arguing that I called two strikes on his batter in the other batters box. I call the outside strike in this level but not that crazy. Catchers are this bad at framing in 8u?

Then when the other team was batting I didn't call an inside strike for his pitcher. I was not calling it inside either way. He said i needed to call it in the other box both ways. I thought it was clear by this point in the game I called an outside strike and not an inside strike. He tells me I need to be better and that's terrible. He keeps going so I give him a warning and he's like "Okay, give me a warning! I don't care!" 

Before the next inning starts he's in the dugout dropping f bombs in front of his 8 year olds about me calling that inside pitch a ball. Just enough so I can hear it. I wish I ran him here. 

Next inning starts and I call a strike and he's telling someone in the dugout that I don't know what I'm doing. I call time and ask if he cares to repeat that and he says "You don't know what you're doing." 

Me: "You're out of here." 

Then he throws his clipboard at me and walks away, comes back up to the fence and says "We're gonna have a talk about this" and keeps moving. 

People on both sides were shocked and one person shouted "AY, that's assault brotha!!" I called 911 in the half inning and told them what happened. Police later arrived in another half inning and I informed them of what happened.  Cop said he didn't see a reason to put cuffs on HC but I did neglect to mention how he threatened to come find me after the game or how you're trespassing if you haven't left the area after getting ejected from a LL game. Then another parent comes over and tells me to get back on the field, to do my job and stop my nonsense. I didn't know calling the cops because someone threw a clipboard at me and said he'd talk with me about this later in a threatening tone was nonsense. 

Why do I feel i have to start packing during my games now? I don't need idiots throwing SH*# at me and threatening to come find me after the game because they think I'm cheating their kid out of a game nobody will remember in 5 years. 

If you are calling a strike outside, are you of the thought that you can't call the inside strike?  We had a local umpire who used to tell less experienced umpires that you can be a low strike umpire or a high strike umpire.  You can't be both.  How about the whole zone?

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4 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

On the other hand, if said coach insists on repeating the dumb comment(s), his ticket will be punched not only because of the comments but because said coach is dumber than a bag of hammers.

As a building contractor, I'm offended by your disdain of hammers. Hammers are WAY smarter than most coaches I know!

Now a bag of rocks........maybe.

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Asking him “what was that?” is a different version of a warning, as was said above. 
 

This hasn’t been brought up yet, but I’m viewing it through a travel ball lens. I treat HS and travel a lot differently, as the coaches, attitudes, comments are much different in travel. I’ll likely never say “what was that?” to a HS coach. I would have no problem saying that to one of 9 travel coaches who already started with attitude when I asked them nicely to put their bucket inside the dugout, for example. 

I’ve also never restricted a travel coach to a dugout under Fed rules. If you’re to the point of a restriction and written warning in a travel game, you can just go. 

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I have never disparaged anyone, I would not expect every umpire to handle stuff exactly like I do.  But saying "what was that" or "care to repeat that" is baiting the coach, plain and simple.  And that's fine...some people clearly have had success with it.

But I could give two s*** about "gaining respect" from an 8u coach, or any coach in travel/youth ball.  If you don't respect the umpires from the get-go, you will likely be writing your ticket to the parking lot as soon as something doesn't go your way.

My job is to enforce the rules and keep the game moving.  No 8u coach (or any youth coach) is going to belittle me.  If it's bad enough to address, you likely will get one official warning and then you will be gone if it continues.  I don't need to "earn my respect", and I don't need to bait a coach into repeating himself. 

As I said before, if it was bad enough that I would eject him for repeating it, then it was bad enough to eject or warn to begin with.  You heard it, address it.  Don't become the aggressor...

How many times in MS and HS did you hear say someone say "you wanna say that to my face"?  That's essentially what you're doing here...they are still in the wrong, but you're being the one inviting the fight.

To each their own, but I would rather "earn respect" by taking control of the situation.  If you don't want to warn yet... "Coach, that's enough, I am not listening to any more about balls and strikes".  Or, "coach, this is your official warning.  Anything further from you and you will force me to eject you".  Then, "you're gone".

Simple, and no one can accuse the umpire of being the aggressor in the situation, ever.

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Any LL around here a coach swears never mind the "F" bomb they are gone, its automatic, no warnings needed.

You should have wrangled that a little quicker and not let him get going.

I will step to a dugout when "they" have gotten on me and tell the coaches, 1 coach only, if you have an issue and do it correct. call time come see me and discuss it. I don't want shouting across the field. They have so far calmed themselves and done better in those games, Some of them even carry on for the rest of the season.  Other times they forget and they are genuinely hot heads

Had to do that to a 8-10U coach/team this past friday, same one I have had issues with before and the same one that a general warning went out to the whole league about how the coaches and fans treat umpires. 

They could not even see the foul line on 1b from their 3b dugout but they all thought a ball was fair when I could clearly see F3 pick it up in the runners lane 4 inches into foul off the line. 

191721002_5971967649510404_1400704421689227648_n.jpg

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I don't get the point about giving the coach a chance to rethink his conduct/comment. He knows what he said, he's relentless in attacking the umpire; if he wants to hang around, he can STFU. 

Yeah, it's baiting. And even if it were not, it could be perceived that way, especially by a coach as described in the OP. This is not college, not HS varsity--it's an U8 daddy-coach, who doesn't have a clue about appropriate conduct. If he did, he wouldn't be "in the dugout dropping f bombs in front of his 8 year olds."

 

 

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12 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

Asking him “what was that?” is a different version of a warning, as was said above. 
 

Unless you end a statement to a coach with, "That's your warning", then it's not a warning.  The only version of a warning is "That's your warning."  Period.

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3 hours ago, catsbackr said:

Unless you end a statement to a coach with, "That's your warning", then it's not a warning.  The only version of a warning is "That's your warning."  Period.

This is not true in pro ball, and there may be limited scenarios outside of pro ball using OBR where that's the case. In fact, if you said "this is your warning" in pro ball or at school, is bet it wouldn't go well. If you're calling FED or NCAA (or youth ball using OBR) though, this is certainly true. 

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