Rizzo's catch of a foul ball, ...

[Thunderheads]

[MadMax]

I was at this game (last night) and this catch was made right in front of us. Granted, we were further up in the 400's, but it was still close at hand. Wrigley Field ended up replaying this catch (that very nearly wasn't ruled a catch), like, fifty times.

Ugh. Yes, I'm a Brewers fan.

The only question I have is what did Carlson (my fellow #6) see initially that would spur him to mechanic "That's nothing", and point into the stands? Rizzo's step sequence was tarp, top of brick wall, catch, seat, throw, fall amongst far-too-easily-impressed-and-fauning Cubs fans. This play wasn't reviewed, but it was a crew conference.

I'm deducing that the top of the brick wall is still in play, then, yes?

 

[Thunderheads]

I was at this game (last night) and this catch was made right in front of us. Granted, we were further up in the 400's, but it was still close at hand. Wrigley Field ended up replaying this catch (that very nearly wasn't ruled a catch), like, fifty times.

Ugh. Yes, I'm a Brewers fan.

The only question I have is what did Carlson (my fellow #6) see initially that would spur him to mechanic "That's nothing", and point into the stands? Rizzo's step sequence was tarp, top of brick wall, catch, seat, throw, fall amongst far-too-easily-impressed-and-fauning Cubs fans. This play wasn't reviewed, but it was a crew conference.

I'm deducing that the top of the brick wall is still in play, then, yes?

 

No, ... Carlson was signaling "safe" as in .... 'no catch', points out of play (in the stands) meaning to say ... no catch out of play.

I would have to safely assume this, ...yes  

 

[UmpJeff]

 

The only question I have is what did Carlson (my fellow #6) see initially that would spur him to mechanic "That's nothing", and point into the stands? Rizzo's step sequence was tarp, top of brick wall, catch, seat, throw, fall amongst far-too-easily-impressed-and-fauning Cubs fans. This play wasn't reviewed, but it was a crew conference.

I'm deducing that the top of the brick wall is still in play, then, yes?

 

I'm guessing that perhaps he (Carlson) adjudged that Rizzo was in DBT when the catch was made.  However, like you deduced, if the wall is, indeed, in LBT, Rizzo was clearly in contact with the wall when the catch was made.  Accordingly, the crew ruled the catch was good and properly awarded R1 to 2B.

[stkjock]

Wow!  That's some catch

[krwill96]

Just asking a question here... Is climbing on the tarp legal? I know some places around locally have a "no climbing on the tarp" ground rule (I assume it's to save the tarp as long as possible as they're not cheap).

If climbing on the tarp is illegal; and then he stepped on the top of the wall, would that make the catch legal again? I'm just trying to make sense of why he said no catch off the outset. 

[Mizzou2016]

They awarded Lucroy second, yes?

[UmpJeff]

Just asking a question here... Is climbing on the tarp legal? I know some places around locally have a "no climbing on the tarp" ground rule (I assume it's to save the tarp as long as possible as they're not cheap).

If climbing on the tarp is illegal; and then he stepped on the top of the wall, would that make the catch legal again? I'm just trying to make sense of why he said no catch off the outset. 

We have the "no climbing on the tarp" ground rule here in MI, too.  I think it's in place more as a matter of safety than anything else.  MLB is a completely different story.  Each MLB ballpark has their own set of ground rules.  I'm assuming it's okay to climb the tarp at Wrigley Field.  

[UmpJeff]

They awarded Lucroy second, yes?

Yes.

[stkjock]

 I'm just trying to make sense of why he said no catch off the outset. 

I think UmpJeff nailed that one, the 1BU rules the catch in DBT

[lscoach]

Out of curiosity, why was he awarded second?  Was it because he proceeded to throw the ball from DBT or because he fell?  I know throwing the ball from DBT has been hotly debated here.

Edited August 13, 2015 by lscoach

[Mizzou2016]

Out of curiosity, why was he awarded second?  Was it because he proceeded to throw the ball from DBT?  I know throwing the ball from DBT has been hotly debated here.

He fell into the stands, which makes it immediately dead. That part of the rule is clear.

The hotly debated topic was throwing from the dugout our other non-spectator DBT. 

[Jimurray]

We have the "no climbing on the tarp" ground rule here in MI, too.  I think it's in place more as a matter of safety than anything else.  MLB is a completely different story.  Each MLB ballpark has their own set of ground rules.  I'm assuming it's okay to climb the tarp at Wrigley Field.  

MLB universal ground rule allow a catch on the field tarp. I assume that means you can step on it. Most of the places I call with a tarp don't allow cleats on the tarp.

[Senor Azul]

For Iscoach, the runner on first was awarded one base after Rizzo fell into the stands because it is a rule. OBR 5.06(b)(3)C (old rule 7.04c) states:

7.04 Each runner, other than the batter, may without liability to be put out, advance one base when-

 (c) A fielder, after catching a fly ball, falls into a bench or stand, or falls across ropes into a crowd when spectators are on the field; A fielder or catcher may reach or step into, or go into the dugout with one or both feet to make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. Ball is in play. If the fielder or catcher, after having made a legal catch, should fall into a stand or among spectators or into the dugout after making a legal catch, or fall while in the dugout after making a legal catch, the ball is dead and runners advance one base without liability to be put out. 

[Jimurray]

For Iscoach, the runner on first was awarded one base after Rizzo fell into the stands because it is a rule. OBR 5.06(b)(3)C (old rule 7.04c) states:

7.04 Each runner, other than the batter, may without liability to be put out, advance one base when-

 

 (c) A fielder, after catching a fly ball, falls into a bench or stand, or falls across ropes into a crowd when spectators are on the field; A fielder or catcher may reach or step into, or go into the dugout with one or both feet to make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. Ball is in play. If the fielder or catcher, after having made a legal catch, should fall into a stand or among spectators or into the dugout after making a legal catch, or fall while in the dugout after making a legal catch, the ball is dead and runners advance one base without liability to be put out. 

But if you say this fielder did not "fall",  then "stepping" into the STANDS still causes the ball to be dead and and a 1 base award by interp.

[Dbellyflop]

6.05 A batter is out when— (a) His fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder; Rule 6.05(a) Comment: A fielder may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in any other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch, falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead. Status of runners shall be as described in Rule 7.04(c) Comment.

FOUL TERRITORY is that part of the playing field outside the first and third base lines extended to the fence and perpendicularly upwards. 

I couldn't find a definition of deadball territory. But to me, he had 1 foot over foul territory. and when he stepped on top of the wall he had a foot down on deadball territory(by the definition of foul territory(( unless you take the word "ground" literally........)) so can a fielder be standing on a seat in the stands and have a foot over the wall and still make a catch?

While it is a spectacular play, i have no catch......

Edited August 14, 2015 by Dbellyflop
grammer

[Jimurray]

6.05 A batter is out when— (a) His fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder; Rule 6.05(a) Comment: A fielder may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in any other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch, falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead. Status of runners shall be as described in Rule 7.04(c) Comment.

FOUL TERRITORY is that part of the playing field outside the first and third base lines extended to the fence and perpendicularly upwards. 

I couldn't find a definition of deadball territory. But to me, he had 1 foot over foul territory. and when he stepped on top of the wall he had a foot down on deadball territory(by the definition of foul territory(( unless you take the word "ground" literally........)) so can a fielder be standing on a seat in the stands and have a foot over the wall and still make a catch?

You have a valid point. I don't even know if stadium ground rules could overrule this. The lip of the dugout is one thing but the lip of that wall is another. Anyway, no protest, and they traded an out for a base advance. Still, a protest in the hip pocket would be good. BTW who won?

[BillKen]

From a safety standpoint...cleats and concrete don't mix.  I would not think that a MLB owner would want a $10M player going up on that wall for the sake of one out.  His broken leg would make that out very expensive.

Speaking of expensive, tarps are expensive...and cleats and tarps don't mix.  And that is why most HS coaches put "no feet on the tarp" in their ground rules.  A tarp with holes is a bad deal.  At the MLB level, a new tarp is an inconvenience.

[basejester]

From a safety standpoint...cleats and concrete don't mix.  I would not think that a MLB owner would want a $10M player going up on that wall for the sake of one out.  His broken leg would make that out very expensive.

Especially an out that advances the runner.  This was as good for Milwaukee  as a successful sacrifice bunt.

 

[DVA7130]

Ladies and gentlemen...... the infamous throw from DBT and base award

[Mizzou2016]

Ladies and gentlemen...... the infamous throw from DBT and base award

Don't get too gleeful. This still doesn't address the crux of the argument from that thread about throws from non-spectator area DBT (i.e. Dugouts)

Everyone was in agreement that you can't throw from spectator areas. 

[DVA7130]

Don't get too gleeful. This still doesn't address the crux of the argument from that thread about throws from non-spectator area DBT (i.e. Dugouts)
Everyone was in agreement that you can't throw from spectator areas. 

Yes, some still have trouble considering the dugout DBT.

Great video regardless for the "you can always throw from DBT" crowd.

[Replacematt]

Yes, some still have trouble considering the dugout DBT.

Great video regardless for the "you can always throw from DBT" crowd.

No, the problem is that you don't get that not all DBT is treated the same, hence why all references refer to each type separately--not as one monolithic entity.