LHP v. RHP Pickoff to First

[Mike D]

Question about Rule 8.01© as it relates to Rule 8.05(a)  At what point does a movement become a pitcher's natural pitching motion and commit him to the pitch?

 

I was talking with fellow umpires at tournament this past weekend about the differences afforded right and left handed pitchers regarding these rules in their pick-off moves to first base, and third obversely).  In both scenarios the free foot does not break the plane of the rubber and there is no interrupted motion, so those are not issues. Are these the correct rulings?

 

1. A left handed pitcher is allowed to lift his free foot, even to the point that the thigh is parallel to the ground , the same initial motion as his natural pitching motion, and then throw to first.  (no-balk)

 

2. A right handed pitcher is not allowed to lift his free foot and throw to first, he must use a "spin move" thus jumping with both feet at the same time.  If the right handed pitcher lifts the free foot but not the pivot foot (even though there is no motion toward the plate) it is considered a natural pitching motion and thus a balk.

 

My argument is OBR only states that a natural pitching motion commits the pitcher to the pitch, and that the pitcher must step ahead of the throw.  It is impossible to step and throw without moving the knee and lifting the free foot from the ground.  OBR makes no mention or requirement of a "spin move."  Why would we allow the left handed pitcher to start with their natural pitching motion then throw to first and not the right hander?  In my mind it is about the intent to deceive and where the  free foot lands.  Left handed pitchers are clearly trying to deceive the runner when they lift the free leg like they are going to pitch then throw to first and right handed pitcher isn't fooling anyone by simply stepping and throwing to first.

[scrounge]

If the RHP can pull it off without moving to home, which I think may require an ankle with a ball joint, then more power to him. The rules don't care what hand the pitcher uses.

[ALStripes17]

Question about Rule 8.01© as it relates to Rule 8.05(a) At what point does a movement become a pitcher's natural pitching motion and commit him to the pitch?

I was talking with fellow umpires at tournament this past weekend about the differences afforded right and left handed pitchers regarding these rules in their pick-off moves to first base, and third obversely). In both scenarios the free foot does not break the plane of the rubber and there is no interrupted motion, so those are not issues. Are these the correct rulings?

1. A left handed pitcher is allowed to lift his free foot, even to the point that the thigh is parallel to the ground , the same initial motion as his natural pitching motion, and then throw to first. (no-balk)

2. A right handed pitcher is not allowed to lift his free foot and throw to first, he must use a "spin move" thus jumping with both feet at the same time. If the right handed pitcher lifts the free foot but not the pivot foot (even though there is no motion toward the plate) it is considered a natural pitching motion and thus a balk.

My argument is OBR only states that a natural pitching motion commits the pitcher to the pitch, and that the pitcher must step ahead of the throw. It is impossible to step and throw without moving the knee and lifting the free foot from the ground. OBR makes no mention or requirement of a "spin move." Why would we allow the left handed pitcher to start with their natural pitching motion then throw to first and not the right hander? In my mind it is about the intent to deceive and where the free foot lands. Left handed pitchers are clearly trying to deceive the runner when they lift the free leg like they are going to pitch then throw to first and right handed pitcher isn't fooling anyone by simply stepping and throwing to first.

'Intent to deceive' is a comment under the balk rules to justify the gray area of those rules.

In regards to lifting the free foot and picking off, the rules allow a direct step to a base to pick off and this 'pick up' step has been an understood and allowed part of the game. Remember the RH has this same right to 3B (guided under the same rules as LH to 1B)

Under your question/scope, this would disallow an 'inside move' to 2B as well, as that requires a leg pick up similar to a motion associated with pitching.

A RH pitcher may not lift his free foot up like a LH (to 1B) bc then the RH is not stepping directly to 1B to pickoff; however, it is my understanding that a RH CAN take his free foot to 1B without doing a 'jump move.' It just has to be a direct step with full intent to go to 1B (no straight pick up).

[noumpere]

When a LH pitcher throws home, he lifts his leg to the balance point.  When a LH pitcher throws to first, he lifts his leg to the balance point.  (to be clear, he's not required to lift the leg, just that lifting the leg is a "natural motion" to throw to either base.)  So, just lifting his leg to the balance point has not committed the LH pitcher to either first or home.  (and same for a RH pitcher to third).

 

When a RH pitcher throws to first, it makes no sense ("is not part of any natural motion") to lift his leg to the balance point.  So, if he does, he cannot throw to first.

 

(Note, however, that he does not need to do any jump turn or jab step as you describe.)

[Rich Ives]

If the RHP can pull it off without moving to home, which I think may require an ankle with a ball joint, then more power to him. The rules don't care what hand the pitcher uses.

 

Pitchers threw to 1B all the time in the "old days" without using a spin or jump.  It's done so infrequently these days that some folks think it's illegal.

[Mike D]

When a LH pitcher throws home, he lifts his leg to the balance point.  When a LH pitcher throws to first, he lifts his leg to the balance point.  (to be clear, he's not required to lift the leg, just that lifting the leg is a "natural motion" to throw to either base.)  So, just lifting his leg to the balance point has not committed the LH pitcher to either first or home.  (and same for a RH pitcher to third).

 

When a RH pitcher throws to first, it makes no sense ("is not part of any natural motion") to lift his leg to the balance point.  So, if he does, he cannot throw to first.

 

(Note, however, that he does not need to do any jump turn or jab step as you describe.)

I am assuming by "balance point" you mean lifting the leg so that the thigh is parallel to the ground, the knee is waist high and the knee is bent at a 90 degree or less angle.  

 

So, the pitcher does not have to do a "spin move" or jump in order to throw to first. - I agree, but why do we allow the LHP to make a move to first that looks just like he is starting his pitching movement with his free leg coming to the balance point? (or the RHP to third)  Shouldn't the LHP have to make a direct step to first?

[noumpere]

 

When a LH pitcher throws home, he lifts his leg to the balance point.  When a LH pitcher throws to first, he lifts his leg to the balance point.  (to be clear, he's not required to lift the leg, just that lifting the leg is a "natural motion" to throw to either base.)  So, just lifting his leg to the balance point has not committed the LH pitcher to either first or home.  (and same for a RH pitcher to third).

 

When a RH pitcher throws to first, it makes no sense ("is not part of any natural motion") to lift his leg to the balance point.  So, if he does, he cannot throw to first.

 

(Note, however, that he does not need to do any jump turn or jab step as you describe.)

I am assuming by "balance point" you mean lifting the leg so that the thigh is parallel to the ground, the knee is waist high and the knee is bent at a 90 degree or less angle.  

 

So, the pitcher does not have to do a "spin move" or jump in order to throw to first. - I agree, but why do we allow the LHP to make a move to first that looks just like he is starting his pitching movement with his free leg coming to the balance point? (or the RHP to third)  Shouldn't the LHP have to make a direct step to first?

 

Because it's BOTH a move to the plate AND a move to first.  Since it can be either one, it's not a COMMITMENT to home.

[basejester]

1. A left handed pitcher is allowed to lift his free foot, even to the point that the thigh is parallel to the ground , the same initial motion as his natural pitching motion, and then throw to first.  (no-balk)

 

I am assuming by "balance point" you mean lifting the leg so that the thigh is parallel to the ground, the knee is waist high and the knee is bent at a 90 degree or less angle.

I don't think parallel to the ground has any significance. That is, if the pitcher lifts higher than parallel, he can still throw to a base or to home.

[Mike Prince]

And the RHP gains back this same advantage when he is trying to pick off R3.  The LHP cannot come to the balance point and go to 3B without the free foot moving towards home during the motion to the base.

[DVA7130]

If a RHP can rotate all the way to first like he would to second in one motion This Is Legal..

[noumpere]

If a RHP can rotate all the way to first like he would to second in one motion This Is Legal..

I'm not quite sure what you are saying -- but this is legal (and has been common in the past) if the RH pitcher rotates ACW.  If the RH pitcher rotates CW (past third, past second, then to first), this would be illegal.