Dumb or useless mechanics

[millerforrest]

Let me start off with the foul tip mechanic/signal.

The only TRUE time this would ever come into necessity would be when a batter checks his swing and the ball hits the bat. Then the foul tip mechanic would be useful. But most times it is not. If the catcher drops a ball that hits the bat and goes directly to his hand or mitt, it becomes "foul". If the catcher hangs on to it, then it is just a "strike".

 

(2 man) - The "Timing" signal is pointless since the BU has basically NOTHING to do with the timing play in and of itself. It is all on the PU. So why does the BU have to signal by pointing to his wrist?

[grayhawk]

Another question is how many times has your partner signaled and it didn't fit the situation? Good chance to correct him so you're on the same page.

[millerforrest]

Knowing where you and your partner are supposed to be in 2 is pretty simple and basic.

Communication (verbal) while play is developing is more important than hand signals.

[UMP45]

Wrong and wrong again? The signals are "vital"? Are you serious? Neither is VITAL....as I explained in the opening, the ONLY time a "foul tip" is actually necessary, is if a batter would check his swing and the ball made contact with the bat on the checked swing. In all other situations (i.e. full swings), if the catcher catches the "foul tip" its still just a strike. If he drops it, it then becomes foul. This is not rocket science. Not everything we have been taught is all relevant.

The timing plays are still only for the PU and his awareness. The base umpire has basically nothing to do with a timing play.

I'll let my friends know, in PBUC, that they don't need to teach these. Also maybe you could contact PBUC and offer you consultation services. Everything we do has a reason. 

[millerforrest]

Just like there used to be a reason of the 45 vs the 1 or 2 steps to take a play at 1B?

Think outside the box. What I described is LOGICAL if you think about it.

Wow...now you wanna "name drop"? Give them my contact info.

[millerforrest]

Its "too" as in also, not "to".

Not too long ago, the ONLY signal umpires gave each other in 2 man was the IF signal. Now, all of a sudden, hand signals are vital? How did we ever get thru a game without hand signals?

[UMP45]

Just like there used to be a reason of the 45 vs the 1 or 2 steps to take a play at 1B?

Think outside the box. What I described is LOGICAL if you think about it.

Wow...now you wanna "name drop"? Give them my contact info.

Thinking "outside the box"is fine. Till it comes back to bite you in the butt!

[millerforrest]

 

Just like there used to be a reason of the 45 vs the 1 or 2 steps to take a play at 1B?

Think outside the box. What I described is LOGICAL if you think about it.

Wow...now you wanna "name drop"? Give them my contact info.

Thinking "outside the box"is fine. Till it comes back to bite you in the butt!

 

 

There is a reason for everything I do as far as umpiring goes. I don't just "fall in line" like they do for softball. Its called THOUGHT PROVOKING for a reason.

 

[UMP45]

 

 

Just like there used to be a reason of the 45 vs the 1 or 2 steps to take a play at 1B?

Think outside the box. What I described is LOGICAL if you think about it.

Wow...now you wanna "name drop"? Give them my contact info.

Thinking "outside the box"is fine. Till it comes back to bite you in the butt!

 

 

There is a reason for everything I do as far as umpiring goes. I don't just "fall in line" like they do for softball. Its called THOUGHT PROVOKING for a reason.

 

 

You just don't get it.

[millerforrest]

No, its YOU that just doesn't get it.

[noumpere]

No, its YOU that just doesn't get it.

If everyone is on the same page, then the signals aren't needed.

 

But, a few times a season, on umpire signals one thing and the other umpire signals another -- or one umpire's signals cause the other to "wake up" and remember how many outs ther are, etc.

 

It seems like a small prioce to pay to help prevent an error.

[UMP45]

No, its YOU that just doesn't get it.

Maybe you could give us a brief synopsis of your vast experience that will let us know why you get it and I don't.

[MidAmUmp]

Just like there used to be a reason of the 45 vs the 1 or 2 steps to take a play at 1B?

Why are you caught up on this 1 or 2 steps on plays at 1st base?  The CCA Manual never proscribes what angle to take for plays at 1st.  I've never instructed at a clinic or have ever heard from others who have instructed at reputable clinics that anyone is teaching taking just 1-2 steps for a play at 1st.  Everyone I know says get a 90-degree angle from the throw, read the throw and take read steps if you read a bad throw.  The only thing I've ever heard taught different is 1 MLB umpire said to shorten your angle to where you'd end up if you had taken a read step, then you don't have to take read steps and you're stopped/set for anything and not moving while the play is happening...which makes a whole lot of sense and it's what I personally do.

 

You resurface a day or two ago apologizing to everyone, then start right back arguing with and insulting everyone again.  Believe it or not, some people come on here to learn how to umpire.  You seem to be advocating to think outside the box, refusing to comply and no signals...just verbally communicate, among other things.  That's fine if you've worked with the same small group of umpires for a long time and you trust each other.  But with the various years and levels of experience - offering advice to the masses that goes against any written reputable umpire manual is not advisable.  Thinking outside the box is good for you and your buddy, but not for a family of umpires from Maine to Hawaii who take the info people write on here and try to apply it to their game.  Countless times we've read on here about guys being evaluated by some Little Hitler who micro manages his umpires and writes them up for the most obscure things.  While I agree that the umpires need to stand up & fight "the man" when "the man" is out of control, it's easy for me to say when I don't work for any micro managers, and it's much harder for others to do when they are just getting started and Adolf Jr. is the only show in town.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with having think outside the box discussions about why we do what we do - when it's posed as such.  But advising to go against well written and well thought out manuals and then lofting insults at those who disagree with you is the wrong way to go about it.  Change is great for diapers and politicians.  I'm also not opposed to changes in mechanics when they are well thought out.  I don't agree with every mechanic that is in the CCA Manual, just as MiLBers don't agree with everything in the PBUC manual, but if any of us want to advance at our current level we'd better do what is written as that's what we're evaluated upon.  If you want something changed, contact a conference coordinator (Fetch), a regional supervisor (Dits), or Hiler or Paronto and make your proposal.  See what happens.  Who knows, maybe we'll all be taking 1-2 steps for plays at 1st and not signaling pre-pitch next year.

 

And finally, since you want to call out the grammar police on to vs. too, you might want to edit your own post to read, "No, it's YOU who that just doesn't get it."

[immaculate1976]

The last thing I need when doing a game is some umpire trying to scream over the coaches, players and fans what he is doing when we could have had a plan before it happened

 

Millerforrest if you work somewhere that does not use signals more power to you but that does not make it right it just makes it your way.

[millerforrest]

Fair enough & I appreciate the correction with my grammar.

However, back in the mid 90's is when the NCAA wanted umpires to get away from the 90 and take 1-2 steps in fair territory as B1 with nobody on 1b. Reason being, much easier for B1 to see a swipe tag or pulled foot scenario. I can see why you run clinics. You're knowledgeable, polite, NOT condescending and don't nitpick on the little things.

Sometimes, I deserve what you have dished out. I am not above anybody else. Sometimes I need to be called "OUT" (pun intended) and I appreciate that. Thank you.

[millerforrest]

Scream over the coaches or players? Aren't we as umpires supposed to communicate verbally with our partners especially as PU (i.e. "That's a catch Moe, Larry, Curly, etc" or "I've got 3rd if he goes" or "I'm staying home"?

[grayhawk]

Twice yesterday, my partner had the situation wrong and without signals, I would have had no opportunity to correct him:

 

- Once he thought there was one out when there were two

- The other time, I indicated IFF, and I'm staying home (bases were loaded).  He gave the double-tag signal, and I reiterated that I was staying home and then he looked and saw R3 and got on the same page.

 

Could this have been corrected "in play" with verbal communication?  Maybe, but why not get on the same page before the play?  I don't see a downside to giving a signal when a new situation arises.

 

Also, when I give signals, they are not some huge thing that everyone should notice.  Just a casual signal and mirror by my partner.

[Majordave]

I worked all weekend with a partner who was a really great guy but he has had very little to any training. When he did signal it was incomprehensible to me what he was signaling. He almost never left the area of home plate, pronounced balls dead, announced no SH*# obviously out of play fouls loudly with no runners on base, announced "ball on the field" (WTF?) when a foul ball bounced back onto the field of play, no rotations to 3B, never took a look for FPSR violations, never followed runners to the 45' line, never lined up for potential RLI calls on D3K balls, talked to every fan in the house (we were in a D1 Stadium), sat in both dugouts at different times between innings, walked through handshake lines a couple of times, dropped several loud F Bombs during conversations with me, players and coaches, stood directly in front of one particularly attractive female mom fan and ogled her and spoke directly with her, flirting, between innings. It was crazy. The parents fans loved him.

I, on the other hand, was a dick and had one ejection on an idiot charging me from 3B coaches box after an inning ending DP. Otherwise, great weekend. Had fun. Just tough to work with a guy who does nothing that I've been trained to do. On the good side he did all six plates. "To save time"!

[grayhawk]

On the good side he did all six plates. "To save time"!

 

Naw.  He worked the plates because he's much better on the dish than he is on the bases.

[millerforrest]

Doing all 6 games on the plate? He could have killed someone & I would've looked passed it as long as he did 6 on the plate! =-)

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I had a good one this weekend with a partner I've worked with many times.  We were in the 5th game of a 6 game day; hazy, humid, temp approaching 90.  I was in A position and batter hit a shot down LF line.  I hustled inside as BR busted it to 2nd...I kept expecting to hear my partner say "I've got 3rd if he comes" and took a quick peek over my left shoulder...only to see partner still at the plate with both hands up in the air.  Runner cruises on to 3rd...finally partner says "where's everybody going?...that ball was foul by 10 feet."

 

First base coach is LIVID.  "You made my pitcher run all that way for NOTHING?...C'mon, blue, you're better than that."

"Oh no" I thought to myself.  "Bill (my partner) is going to take that as an insult and run him."

Fortunately, Bill chose to ignore it...probably because he knew coach was right.

 

After that half inning, I gave my partner a private load-o-crap, "Foul by 10 feet, huh.  That MIGHT have been useful information to have before I dragged my 60 year old arse half way across the county trying to keep up with a 16 year old athlete".

 

The next half inning, when that same team was batting again, a batter fouled one straight back to the screen.  Bill shouts "THAT was a FOUL BALL!!!" and stared directly down at me and the base coach...all the while with a big grin in his face.  Base coach says to me "I think that was for us."  

[millerforrest]

That my friend is why baseball is the best sport ever invented to officiate!

[millerforrest]

Thought for sure Grayhawk was going to say "Hes better on his knees than on the bases."