Higher stakes, more tolerance?

[afaber12]

Per my associations rules, I can't go into details about an ejection I had in this afternoon's game, at least not until the matter has been heard by the disciplinary committee. (The details of the ejection itself aren't that worthy enough to discuss, but the flow on effect of the ejection may be.)

 

We all have a line in the sand that if a player or manager crosses, we pull the trigger. Where we draw that line will be slightly different for all of us, and may well vary depending on the level of the competition, age of the players, and maybe a number of other factors. What I'm curious about though is whether or not you give more tolerance for higher stakes games. Would you be more inclined to warn a player rather than eject them in a game where the teams are facing elimination, or in a championship game? However much extra rope you give (if any), there will still be a point where you've warned enough already, or the behaviour is extreme enough that you can't not eject or else you're inviting the inmates to take over the asylum. But do you allow for the extra pressure/tension/passion because there's more on the line, or do you apply the same standard for Game 7 as you do Opening Day?

[Chip]

When I was younger (and not an umpire), I subscribed to the notion that players/managers should get a little extra rope in high-stakes games. A defining moment for me as a Red Sox fan was perhaps the Roger Clemens/Terry Cooney incident in the 1990 playoffs.

 

Now as an umpire, I don't think that the line should change in those big games, but I do expect more "chirping" from fans. I think it's important to tune that out and make sure that the volume and persistence of that chirping doesn't unintentionally lead to a shorter rope by virtue of that irritation. In other words, make certain that the ejectable incident is sufficient on its own and not influenced by what others (especially fans) may have been saying throughout the game. Since we're human, it can be hard to separate things, but it's important to do so in all games -- especially these high stakes ones where the volume is turned up.

[Kevin_K]

I have found that higher stakes games generally have fewer incidents of players and coaches ejecting themselves. Most recognize that their team is better off with them in the game than not.

 

The rope does not need to be longer nor shorter. Changing how you umpire is not a solution. If you would typically warn some one, do the same thing in every game regardless of its significance.

 

Your abilities as an umpire likely got you to the championship level, so keep doing what got you there.

[JaxRolo]

I've never had to eject anyone at 13u or over levels.

I have countless ejections at 12u under. Haven't work 12u in a couple years. Try to stay away from that!

[LRZ]

I have a slow trigger, so I would have little or no extra slack. But I see no real harm in being a bit more tolerant in big games, keeping in mind that mantra, ignore, acknowledge, warn, eject. I don't see that as changing in any substantial way how we umpire.

[BillKen]

I'm probably inclined to let them blow off a little more steam in a high pressure situation...but they can't cross the line of derogatory personal comments, impeaching my integrity, or cursing loud enough to be heard by anyone on the fence.

[tjwoelfel13]

I try to have the same level of tolerance for every game I work.  I understand that it can get very emotional out there and like LRZ I have a fairly slow trigger but I also know what actions I consider to be acceptable and what I consider to be unacceptable.  It is the coach's responsibility to keep himself in the game not mine. If he wants to be emotional but reasonable he can be that way all day. But if he decides to be a clown and get himself tossed I will not lose any sleep over it. 

[BT_Blue]

I agree with @Kevin_K here. Usually you will find less problems in a more "important" game. There is a some what well known clip from last year's NCAA Super Regional between NC State and (I think) N. Carolina when Joe Burleson calls a runner safe on a close play at the plate. F2 then screams at Burleson and spikes his mask. This earns a stern warning and the NC State HC comes out to argue and save his catcher.

I has been understood that there was most likely instructions from the NCAA to not eject if possible. Burly was applauded for his restraint for all involved.

[catsbackr]

afaber12,

If I read your statement correctly, you've done 91 games total and had 7 ejections? That's 1 ejection every 13 games! Is it that bad in New South Wales?

[afaber12]

afaber12,

If I read your statement correctly, you've done 91 games total and had 7 ejections? That's 1 ejection every 13 games! Is it that bad in New South Wales?

 

I'm pretty sure that my ejection rate is higher than the average, and could be among the highest in the local association. I've played somewhere in the vicinity of 300 games in the local league where most games I've umpired have been, and apart from the ejections I've made I've not seen an ejection in games I've played. I don't know whether all of that says I've either had it worse than other umpires or just am worse than other umpires, or it is as bad as my numbers suggest in part because others aren't ejecting when they should. The ground I was at yesterday had two diamonds, and I wasn't the only umpire to pull the trigger on the day.

 

I've spoken to senior umpires in the league about my situations and have agreed that the ejections were reasonable, and I've not been pulled up and told to dial it back or anything along those lines, so whether or not I'm getting a reputation among players as a hard ass, it doesn't seem I'm being overly picky. I think there's at least some chance that some of the ejections I've had have come from being a new (or at least relatively new) umpire, and seeing if they can get away with a bit more, or a perception that because I'm new that I'm making bad judgments, or that because I'm younger than a lot of the other umpires in the league that I'm not going to back myself. I'm certain that it hasn't helped that half my games have been solo, and until yesterday all my ejections had been in games without a partner.

[PonyUmpire]

Most new umpires are afraid to eject.  It sounds like afaber is a new umpire who is ejecting when he needs to, and he certainly shouldn't be criticized for it.

[bleacher_bum]

 

afaber12,

If I read your statement correctly, you've done 91 games total and had 7 ejections? That's 1 ejection every 13 games! Is it that bad in New South Wales?

 

I'm pretty sure that my ejection rate is higher than the average, and could be among the highest in the local association. I've played somewhere in the vicinity of 300 games in the local league where most games I've umpired have been, and apart from the ejections I've made I've not seen an ejection in games I've played. I don't know whether all of that says I've either had it worse than other umpires or just am worse than other umpires, or it is as bad as my numbers suggest in part because others aren't ejecting when they should. The ground I was at yesterday had two diamonds, and I wasn't the only umpire to pull the trigger on the day.

 

I've spoken to senior umpires in the league about my situations and have agreed that the ejections were reasonable, and I've not been pulled up and told to dial it back or anything along those lines, so whether or not I'm getting a reputation among players as a hard ass, it doesn't seem I'm being overly picky. I think there's at least some chance that some of the ejections I've had have come from being a new (or at least relatively new) umpire, and seeing if they can get away with a bit more, or a perception that because I'm new that I'm making bad judgments, or that because I'm younger than a lot of the other umpires in the league that I'm not going to back myself. I'm certain that it hasn't helped that half my games have been solo, and until yesterday all my ejections had been in games without a partner.

 

Maybe, and I'm not trying to be a shrink here or anything, but just maybe some of these things are in YOUR head.  You may be trying to prove to some (and yourself) that you are not going to be pushed around, and that because you're young, you will not be taken advantage of and so forth.  The only reason I say this is, as catsback said, that's a pretty high ej rate.  Now by no means am I saying that those ejections weren't warranted or not, but good knowledge of the rules along with hustle and good mechanics should be able to keep you from ejection situations more often than not.

It's a good thing that you can pull the trigger when needed...IMO

As far as more tolerance for higher stakes games, I think most people have a little thicker skin, maybe a little more deaf ears, but the lines stay in the same spot.

[alex7]

As stated here before, the only ejections you regret are the ones you don't make.  

 

As for the OP, I do give a little more rope in a big situation/game, just like Bill Ken stated, so long as it doesn't cross certain lines.  Those big moments certainly cause emotions to run higher, more whining, more begging for calls, more groans and complaints about calls/non-calls...so long as certain lines aren't crossed, I can ignore those easier knowing the nature of the situation.

 

I believe the easy answer is to say to treat every situation the same, but the realistic answer is that, yes, a huge game requires slightly better game-management.

 

The bigger the game, the smaller my ears might become...again, to an extent.

[MidAmUmp]

In bigger games tensions and emotions run high. What you should do is more preventive officiating. Recognizing and shutting down potential problems before they start. Should you show more restraint? Perhaps. It is what it is. EVERYONE behaves differently when it's the post-season. An ejection that wouldn't be questioned in early March will receive much more scrutiny in mid-May. Game administrators usually come from a player/coaching background. Their mentality is, "Let the players decide the game." I think the players/coaches do decide the game on the field which includes if they choose to be ejected.

Here's the deal...

Work the game as you would work any game. Bust your ass, work hard, and control the game. Don't give more leway for misbehavior. Do show some restraint if the call warrants it. Was it a big play? Was it a huge situation? Were you out of position? Are you less than 100% sure of your call? I'm going to give a coach more rope in any of these situations wether it's February or May. He's emotionally involved. He's going to be upset. He's not going to get personal and if he does, he's going to go. I'm going to let him vent. I'm going to explain what I've called. I'll let him vent some more. I'll warn if/when necessary. Then the ball's in his court. It's up to him at that point wether he stays or goes.

If you're dealing with a player(s), use the coach to get them under control. It's a pretty good bet if a player is acting stupid and arguing someone is coming. Tell the coach to get his player(s) under control and then you'll talk.

In regards to the situation with Burly last year at the CWS, the NCAA backed him in his decision to not eject. They also would have backed him if he had decided to eject. That's a good thing. Burly handled the situation the best way he knew how. While stakes were high and emotions were amped, Burly remained in control. Why? Because he'd been there before. I have it on good authority that the NCAA never made any statement about doing everything possible to keep people in the game. Burly chose not to eject on his own. He is one of the best in the country. There aren't many in the country who could carry his jock. And that's why he was able to get by with not ejecting anyone. He commands that much respect. And he's a great guy on top of it!

The bottom line is umpires must learn how to keep people in the game as much as, if not more than, how to eject. The easy answer is eject. The hardest thing to do is defuse the situation without ejecting. Handling situations really starts with how the call was made. You're going to have fewer situations to handle if you are in the correct position, fight for angles, have good timing, make the correct call with confident and convincing mechanics. These things earn the respect of coaches and they are less likely to argue if they believe you are doing a good job.

I just worked 3 games on national television this past weekend. We had 1 coach on the field all weekend and it was an extremely mild conversation with the plate guy about a foul tip/foul ball. Did we get every call right? No. But did we work hard? Yes. Were we in position for every call? Yes. Were we professional? Yes. Did we take care of our business? Yes. That's why we didn't have people on the field.

[JDavis225]

I agree with @Kevin_K here. Usually you will find less problems in a more "important" game. There is a some what well known clip from last year's NCAA Super Regional between NC State and (I think) N. Carolina when Joe Burleson calls a runner safe on a close play at the plate. F2 then screams at Burleson and spikes his mask. This earns a stern warning and the NC State HC comes out to argue and save his catcher.

I has been understood that there was most likely instructions from the NCAA to not eject if possible. Burly was applauded for his restraint for all involved.

I saw this and I wondered why there was no ejection. I thought it was mandatory in that situation. Apparently, I was wrong. I learned something new.

[Jocko]

Here's my take.... would I have argued the call if I were the coach? Was is a whacker? Was it pivotal play? At a pivotal time? All things considered.

*****TO A POINT*****

He may get a bit longer to vent. Thats the extent of my rope. The lines remain the same.

[dl1340]

 

 

this is the play in question from above post.

[BT_Blue]

Yup, that would be the one. And as MAU said earlier, Burly is one of the few umpires around that could get away with NOT running F2 in this play and still get praised for it.

[Minnz]

Do you hustle more in the playoffs than a regular season game?  Why would you change your EJ in a big game?  Do you change your strike zone?  Do you change you out/safe calls?  

 

Every game has the same meaning.  Think about it for the player.  That could be his big game personally no matter when the game is.  That kid could have a scout there or that couch could have a bonus to win vs. their rival.  If you treat each game the same then every game is a Game 7 mentality.  

 

If the situation warrants an EJ in March i then i should in May.  Why look for the it early but allow it late in the season?  I saw if the EJ wouldn't happen in a Game 7 then you shouldn't do it in March.

 

I also saw stop keeping count of EJ.  How many people you eject only matters if you do it too often.  All these signatures with their running EJ total is silly to me.  Feels like bragging a big and the last we want to do is EJ.

[grayhawk]

@MidAmUmp - please let us know when you will be on TV next - especially the dish. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MidAmUmp]

Most of the time we don't know until the week of the game. But it would appear that 2 games I have at Kansas vs. Grand Canyon will be on ESPN3 and the Friday game at Creighton vs. Seton Hall will be on CBS Sports. Other than that...who knows.

[JaxRolo]

 

 

this is the play in question from above post.

That was an excellent call!

[grayhawk]

Most of the time we don't know until the week of the game. But it would appear that 2 games I have at Kansas vs. Grand Canyon will be on ESPN3 and the Friday game at Creighton vs. Seton Hall will be on CBS Sports. Other than that...who knows.

 

Thanks.  Looks like the Kansas/Grand Canyon games are April 15/16 - correct?  Not sure I get CBS Sports on Directv - will have to check.

[Minnz]

 

Most of the time we don't know until the week of the game. But it would appear that 2 games I have at Kansas vs. Grand Canyon will be on ESPN3 and the Friday game at Creighton vs. Seton Hall will be on CBS Sports. Other than that...who knows.

 

Thanks.  Looks like the Kansas/Grand Canyon games are April 15/16 - correct?  Not sure I get CBS Sports on Directv - will have to check.

 

221 on DirecTV

[Jglopez7]

 

@:14 he tells the player "son you are about to get ejected" providing options and a warning for tossing the glove. Great call! @MidAmUmp thanks for the feedback and Burleson kept his cool...good heads up on the coach on stepping between the umpire and the player too