MLB to Change Collision rules?

[jkumpire]

(If this is the wrong place, feel free to move it)

 

Last night I was sitting in my car waiting for someone to unlock a building so I could attend a BK rules meeting. Looking for something worth listening to I found an old Cincinnati tradition, the Reds Hot Stove League.

 

Marty Brenneman seemed to be off on one of his rants as I tuned in and said this: "I quote Joe Torre, who said today that 'college baseball has a mandatory slide rule', and we are looking at changing the collision rule at home plate."

 

Wow! I'm not disputing at all the need to look at HP collisions, and trying to ignore what Joe Torre said, but how would you change the rule in MLB, and how do you write the new replay rules to accomadate the new judgment call at the plate that will get questioned every time it happens? Of course I would prefer no replay for a judgment call like this, but I'm not sure that will happen.   

[ricka56]

When I grew up playing baseball, R3 trucking F2 when F2 was blocking the plate (before he had the ball) was just as acceptable as F2 blocking HP without the ball. If you're going to outlaw one, you need to outlaw the other.

 

And if you're going to outlaw the collision at HP, then you have to have a MC rule to EJ R3. If R3 is just out for a collision (not ejected), then what does R3 have to lose by not colliding?...he's dead meat anyway, why not try to knock the ball loose and put it on the umpire to call him out.

[Thunderheads]

Brenneman didn't really quote Torre .....

 

here ..........

 

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/11/13/263396/Major-League-Baseball-s-New-Plans-For.aspx

[Umpire in Chief]

I'm surprised we don't have a collision rule already. But an sure we'll have in MLB soon.

 

Rose pretty much ended Fosse's career, Posey's collision was awful, Minnesota is now moving Mauer permanently to first due to concussions. Not to mention the fouls off of every part of their body. Catching is the toughest position in the game. 

 

Look at all the lawsuits the NFL is in from former players for concussions stating that the league either failed to protect them adequately or let them know of the long term consequences of concussions. Also look at all the rules they have put in place to protect their most vulnerable players, at the MLB level there aren't such rules.  

 

The owners and the league want to protect their investments and limit their liability. Players like Posey, Wieters, Mauer, McCann ... put butts in seats, and money in their pockets. When they implement new collision rules it won't be to protect the players it will be to protect their wallets. 

[Rich Ives]

The NCAA Rule

 

Collision Rule

SECTION 7. The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent

collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all bases. The

intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid such

collisions whenever possible.

When there is a collision between a runner and a fielder who clearly is in

possession of the ball, the umpire shall judge:

If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line with clear possession

of the ball, the runner may make contact, slide into or make contact with a fielder

as long as the runner is making a legitimate attempt to reach the base (plate).

Contact above the waist that was initiated by the base runner shall not be judged

as an attempt to reach the base or plate.

(1) The runner must make an actual attempt to reach the base (plate).

PENALTY—If the runner attempts to dislodge the ball or initiates an

avoidable collision, the runner shall be declared out, even if

the fielder loses possession of the ball. The ball is dead and all

other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the

time of the interference.

(2) The runner may not attempt to dislodge the ball from the fielder. Contact

above the waist shall be judged by the umpire as an attempt by the runner

to dislodge the ball.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious before the runner touches

the plate, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from

the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base

runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the

interference.

(3) The runner must attempt to avoid a collision if he can reach the base

without colliding.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious after the runner touches

the base (plate), the runner is safe, but is ejected from the

contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base

runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the

interference. If this occurs at any base other than home, the

offending team may replace the runner.

If the contact occurs after a preceding runner touches home

plate, the preceding runner is safe. The ball is immediately

dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base

touched at the time of the contact.

(4) If the runner’s path to the base is blocked and (1), (2) and (3) are fulfilled,

it is considered unavoidable contact (see Rule 2-54, Obstruction).

[Texas Manny]

I may be the only one, but this is the wussification of baseball of baseball happening right before our eyes. IR is absolutely changing the face of baseball and I submit that by the time they are finished, baseball will look like NFHS before it's done and worse. IR is truly a pandora's box. There's an old addage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and if it's fixed, DON'T BREAK IT!

 

LEAVE BASEBALL ALONE!

[MidAmUmp]

I would say they'll go the route of fines and suspensions for collisions.

[mstaylor]

I am on record as not liking most IR. However,I have always issued the collisions at the plate. I don't really have a problem with most of that, but some are just done incorrectly. Some crash the catcher to dislodge the ball, others just crash the catcher and he happens to drop three ball, fine. Three problem there is there is no way to write a rule up allow one and not the other. <br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[MidAmUmp]

I am on record as not liking most IR. However,I have always issued the collisions at the plate. I don't really have a problem with most of that, but some are just done incorrectly. Some crash the catcher to dislodge the ball, others just crash the catcher and he happens to drop three ball, fine. Three problem there is there is no way to write a rule up allow one and not the other. <br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

That's why I think they're more likely to go the route of fines and suspensions after the fact. Probably something along the lines of either contact above the shoulders or above the waist will result in some sort of penalty.

[Replacematt]

I may be the only one, but this is the wussification of baseball of baseball happening right before our eyes. IR is absolutely changing the face of baseball and I submit that by the time they are finished, baseball will look like NFHS before it's done and worse. IR is truly a pandora's box. There's an old addage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and if it's fixed, DON'T BREAK IT!

 

LEAVE BASEBALL ALONE!

 

It is broken.

 

Internet tough guys that complain about "wussification" don't hold much credibility in my book.

[grayhawk]

I may be the only one, but this is the wussification of baseball of baseball happening right before our eyes. IR is absolutely changing the face of baseball and I submit that by the time they are finished, baseball will look like NFHS before it's done and worse. IR is truly a pandora's box. There's an old addage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and if it's fixed, DON'T BREAK IT!

 

LEAVE BASEBALL ALONE!

 

I have to disagree.  We are learning more and more about the long term effect of concussions and it's pretty scary.  Catchers are so vulnerable, and there is no reason a player's livelihood and future health should be put in serious jeopardy just so a run can score.  If protecting players from serious injury is "wussification" then so be it.

[Thunderheads]

they've tried to stop injuries in football, and hockey ....... what makes baseball different than 2 other sports that are traditionally much more violent?

[BT_Blue]

I may be the only one, but this is the wussification of baseball of baseball happening right before our eyes. IR is absolutely changing the face of baseball and I submit that by the time they are finished, baseball will look like NFHS before it's done and worse. IR is truly a pandora's box. There's an old addage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and if it's fixed, DON'T BREAK IT!

LEAVE BASEBALL ALONE!

I have to disagree. We are learning more and more about the long term effect of concussions and it's pretty scary. Catchers are so vulnerable, and there is no reason a player's livelihood and future health should be put in serious jeopardy just so a run can score. If protecting players from serious injury is "wussification" then so be it. Also, if I remember correctly, collisions at the plate equate to maybe one run a season (if not two). I do not have the numbers readily available. This play happens so seldomly that it basically renders it useless. Sure it is exciting, but is it worth costing your team, who ever that may be, one of your big name players a couple weeks/months (player that comes to mind right now is Alex Avila), a season (read Buster Posey), or a whole career (Ray Fosse for the collision and Mike Matheny for the concussions)?

It is a play that needs to go and go quickly.

[mstaylor]

I understand not wanting to change baseball but the problem is the money has gotten so big the play has outlived it's usefulness. It is much like hitting players for breaking the unwritten rules. That used to be a fastball up and in, no longer. The phrase," sticking one in the earhole" meant exactly that. Now you hit them in the ribs or butt, or even just throw behind them, times change.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[umpstu]

I'm surprised we don't have a collision rule already. But an sure we'll have in MLB soon.

 

Rose pretty much ended Fosse's career, Posey's collision was awful, Minnesota is now moving Mauer permanently to first due to concussions. Not to mention the fouls off of every part of their body. Catching is the toughest position in the game. 

 

Look at all the lawsuits the NFL is in from former players for concussions stating that the league either failed to protect them adequately or let them know of the long term consequences of concussions. Also look at all the rules they have put in place to protect their most vulnerable players, at the MLB level there aren't such rules.  

 

The owners and the league want to protect their investments and limit their liability. Players like Posey, Wieters, Mauer, McCann ... put butts in seats, and money in their pockets. When they implement new collision rules it won't be to protect the players it will be to protect their wallets. 

Chad Krueter almost died from a home plate collision. He blocked the plate and walked away, but the next day while taking a shower at home he collapsed. It turns out he had internal bleeding from the collision. Get rid of that collision. There is no need for it and it is in no way wussifying the game. I don't think it is macho to hurt another player. I won't umpire MSBL just because a fifty year old man thinks it is important to break up a double play by wiping out the middle infielder. What the hell does it matter that the player may become so injured that he is no longer able to provide for his family? There is no need at all for a home plate collision. NONE!

[alex7]

I'm sure people scoffed way back when at the idea of wearing batting helmets.

Guys scoffed (wimps) when fielders started showing up with gloves.

People scoffed at the ridiculousness of base coaches wearing helmets.

 

This too shall pass.  And we'll soon forget it was ever different in the first place.

[UMP45]

I'm sure people scoffed way back when at the idea of wearing batting helmets.

Guys scoffed (wimps) when fielders started showing up with gloves.

People scoffed at the ridiculousness of base coaches wearing helmets.

 

This too shall pass.  And we'll soon forget it was ever different in the first place.

The helmets on coaches is ridiculous.

[mstaylor]

The reason used for them is sound, except they have nothing to do with the injury the are supposed to be protecting against.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[acpar72]

Quickly…Is Mauer's concussions due to collisions?

[umpstu]

I'm sure people scoffed way back when at the idea of wearing batting helmets.

Guys scoffed (wimps) when fielders started showing up with gloves.

People scoffed at the ridiculousness of base coaches wearing helmets.

 

This too shall pass.  And we'll soon forget it was ever different in the first place.

Those helmets do look funny. I always point and laugh at them. But you are correct about these. And I guarantee you that they don't allow players to sharpen their cleats any more. Lou Gehrig would have lived a much longer life if he had worn a helmet. All of the changes for safety sakes are probably not working, but at least they are trying to make it safer for the players. And people saying it wussifies the game, hell we never wore seat belts when we were young and we're alive today. But how many thousands of people aren't? Strict codes kept the death toll of Hurricane Sandy at 72 in the U.S.. With lax codes in the Philippines is so far estimated at 10,000. Safety is a good thing, especially preventive safety. As a submariner I am very much in favor of stopping a disaster before it happens.

[Platejob29]

I may be the only one, but this is the wussification of baseball of baseball happening right before our eyes. IR is absolutely changing the face of baseball and I submit that by the time they are finished, baseball will look like NFHS before it's done and worse. IR is truly a pandora's box. There's an old addage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and if it's fixed, DON'T BREAK IT!

 

LEAVE BASEBALL ALONE!

I think that it is pretty ignorant to continue to allow something that is so dangerous just because that's he way it's been done forever. In colonial times they fought wars marching in lines and took no cover. They literally just shot at a row of people until one side retreated. Now that seems pretty stupid by todays standards. My point is that why is it necessary to leave a catcher out in the open and often times unprotected just because it's been that way for years? This isn't just a game anymore, it's someones livelihood and just because it's been one way in the past doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed now if it makes the game safer. The collision at the plate is so pointless it's ridiculous that it even exists. If a baseball lifer like TLR says on a panel of some of the most influential people and writers in baseball that the one thing he would change about the game is the collision at the plate shouldn't we at least put some thought into it? I was a catcher and was hit at the plate even though it was illegal malicious contact by rule in the tournament I was playing in and I hurt my shoulder bad enough that I couldn't play anymore. It was the best thing that ever happened to me because I discovered my love for umpiring because of it, however that isn't the case for most people. For most people it means stepping away from the game they love.

[ricka56]

The collision at the plate is so pointless it's ridiculous that it even exists.

R3/F2 collisions were born out of F2s taking advantage of the obstruction loophole (in the act of fielding the ball ) and blocking HP. It has unfortunately morphed into truck F2 whenever you can and that should go away. But even if there is a rule against collisions, there are going to be "trainwrecks" that shouldn't be penalized. Maybe the post-game (cooler heads) review/fines/suspensions is the way to go.

 

I was a catcher and was hit at the plate.

This explains a lot.

[Umpire in Chief]

Quickly…Is Mauer's concussions due to collisions?

 

On the news it was attributed to fouls, Especially the game he took two good ones in the same game and was pulled. But he has also been involved with a couple of good hits at the plate. 

[boyinr]

I may be the only one, but this is the wussification of baseball of baseball happening right before our eyes. IR is absolutely changing the face of baseball and I submit that by the time they are finished, baseball will look like NFHS before it's done and worse. IR is truly a pandora's box. There's an old addage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and if it's fixed, DON'T BREAK IT!

 

LEAVE BASEBALL ALONE!

 

I am piling on but, I would agree that it is broke and needs to be fixed.  For collision plays the risk/harm outweighs the benefit/gain.  That play is just something that needs to go away.  IMO player safety is not wussification.  No one should have to put thier long term health at risk to play a game for my entertainment.  This isnt Rollerball or The Hunger Games. 

[acpar72]

I thought it was mainly fouls also Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk