Texas Manny

SOLD! This thread may now be deleted by the mods. Thanks again! Manny

Sale pending. Thanks, Manny

Hello Y'all, How are you? It's been some time since I've been on the board. Things are okay, but I am not getting back into umpiring for certain reasons. I have the following books that I'd like to offer for sale. This is a book bonanza. Wendelstedt Umpire School Official Baseball Rules and Interpretations Manual Wendelstedt Umpire School Comprehensive Manual for the Two Umpire System Jim Evans Maximizing the Two-Umpire system Manual Jim Evans Diamond Challenge Jim Evans Professional Baseball Rules Index Professional Baseball Umpire Corp. Manual for Two-Umpire System Professional Baseball Umpire Corp. 2013 Umpire Manual MLB Umpire Manual Rule Interpretations 2013 Rick Roder Baseball's Narrowest Door - How to Become a Professional Umpire All books are basically new, gently used, and are not missing pages, no tears, etc. All these books, I am asking $100.00 for. I'll pick up the shipping. If you are interested, please email me at: randall.m.morgan@msn.com Thank you very much. I can send you pictures if wanted. Here's to wishing you all the best! Manny Morgan

I got a call on this, this morning. My heart stopped and sunk. He was so full of life, trying to touch everyone who crossed his path. Then, in a twinkling of an eye, he is gone, but his memory shall not pass unforgotten. We should all strive to touch the hearts and souls of people who cross our paths like Mike did. Perhaps, the world would be a better place if we did that. I know that my world is a little better having known Mike. I thank God for that window of opportunity. Wow. I'm just...empty. I don't know what else to say. May God ease the bereavement of the family's hearts, and quench the loss they so heavily feel. A sad day indeed. But also a day to rejoice in life anew. Make each day count. That's what Mike did. I want to be like Mike!

Innocent until proven guilty. I really don't think this needs to be discussed at all. Doesn't put umpiring in a positive light.

Nick went to WUS, not TUS.

Hey Y'all, I know that there has been word on some WUS students going to PBUC, but how about the host of members here who went to TUS? Any info? Thanks, Manny

Congratulations Nick! Totally awesome! If there is anything I can do to help you, please let me know. You da man!

He's a real weiner if you ask me.

Fourth Out caused by an appeal can only be activated when the third out is the result of an appeal. You cannot engage the apparent fourth out when the third out is made on a standard, non-appeal play. See rule 7.10 "Fourth Out" requirements. No appeal allowed on the BR since the 3rd out was at home. Defense read the play wrong, and chose the wrong player to attempt to get out. Had they went after the BR, then the BR would have been the third out and NO runs would score. By choosing R2 at home, one run scored.

I thought the OP said "...limited to OBR/NCAA"

Except that you DID say he violated a rule before you edited your post. That's what prompted me to write my post. I've seen you do this on many occasions. If you change the content of a post (something more than just a typo), you should call that out when you make your edits. Yes, you are correct. I did originally say that and then I edited it because I didn't want to make a mistake. I will work on your suggestion. My apologies for any confusion.

I said that in post #129. He didn't violate a rule. He just failed to meet his obligation to advance and reach 1st safely because of his injury.

You have arrived at the correct answer, but not by using the correct rule. The rule you're quoting here is irrelevant to the OP. The "defense gets to pick its appeal" rule applies when you have multiple valid and upheld appeals. For example: SITUATION: R1, R2, 1 out. Batter hits a long fly ball that appears to be over F8's head, and the runners take off. F8 makes a diving catch, both runners cross the plate. The defense appeals R1's failure to retouch for the third out. They then appeal R2's failure to retouch for an apparent 4th out. RULING: The defense will choose R2's out as the 3rd out of the inning, which will cancel both runs (4.09). If they chose R1's out to be the third out, R2's run would count (time play). I brought the 7.10 rule out to show how an appeal doesn't work here, and how the recognition of the fourth out can't work either. There is no appeal play possible because the 3rd out was made to end the inning on a standard play, not an appeal play which would have opened the door for recognition of the fourth out. The defense simply chose poorly in which play to go for. I'm not sure you understood or read fully what I said. Not accusing, just appears you missed it.

I think I may have answered my own question: 7.10: Appeal plays may require an umpire to recognize an apparent fourth out. If the third out is made during a play in which an appeal play is sustained on another runner, the appeal play decision takes precedence in determining the out. If there is more than one appeal during a play that ends a half-inning, the defense may elect to take the out that gives it the advantage. For the purpose of this rule, the defensive team has left the field when the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory on their way to the bench or clubhouse. Since the third out was made outside the parameter of the scope of an appeal, then the recognition of the appeal on the BR for the fourth out cannot be made by the umpire. The defense erred in its choice selection of plays. They should have been aware of the rules and the situation and went for the wounded BR instead of R2 trying to score. Because they made the wrong choice, they cost themselves the run. The tag on the BR after the play at the plate does not meet the parameter of the fourth out. What happened to the batter, after the plate at the plate, is a moot point since the third out was made at home. The batter didn't violate a rule. He failed to complete his responsibility to reach 1st base. Defense chose poorly. No cake for them. YES? NO? Do I win $100.00? LOL...

Rule 4.09(B) discusses how a team scores. In it, the rule states that if a runner refuses to advance that the umpire can disallow a run, and call an offending player out. I bring this up, because it shows, in context, that the batter, once he legally puts the ball in play, or an act is done against him by the defense, that would award him 1st base, he is REQUIRED to advance to first. If in a dead ball situaiton, he is injured, a substitute player is allowed to be submitted, to complete his advance to the base or bases to which he was awarded. The rule says that the responsibility to advance and touch the bases in order, is NOT relieved, unless fans prevent such player from advancing, and the umpires can award the base(s) 4.09. The throw to home plate for the 3rd out, as in the OP's scenario, is a seperate action from the batter. The batter is obligated by rule, that once he hit the ball, to advance, and touch in order, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and home, as he legally, possibly can. Just because he fell injured, that doesn't relieve him of his responsibility to advance to and touch 1st base, as required by rule. He didn't do that. It is a violation of the rule. An appeal under Rule 2.00 defines an APPEAL as a violation of the rules. 7.10B deals with this exact issue because it covers advancing to a base, which he is obligated to do. So how do you negate the batter's responsibility to advance and touch the bases in order, by rule, when he didn't do that? How can you say on one hand, that had the defense not attempted for the play at the plate, but tagged the batter for the 3rd out, no runs would score under 4.09 because the batter didn't complete his obligation to advance to and safely reach first base, to which when the 3rd out is made by the BR before reaching 1st, no run shall score, then, on the other hand, say the batter didn't cause a rule violation because the defense made the play at home for the third out, yet saw the batter's violation, then subsequently appealed correctly under 7.10(B) citing the batter didn't legally advance to and reach 1st safely, thus creating the advantagous "fourth" out, which the defense is allowed to do by rule 7.10? No rule negates the responsibility of running the bases in order, under normal circumstances. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Or can you? LOL.

How do you explain away 7.10B which is part of the appeal rule? Just asking is all... Manny, there is no need to "explain away" anything with respect to 7.10b, but I will attempt to clarify my position on it. It is clearly referring to missed bases, whether a runner is advancing or returning to a base. A runner cannot miss a base he had never even reached. Advancing simply means that they are moving towards home, while returning means the opposite. If a runner misses second base while advancing towards third, then he can be out on appeal. If a runner misses second base while returning to first (as in a caught fly ball situation), then he can be out on appeal. 7.10b has no relevance with respect to runners that never reached a base. Hope that helps. But that isn't what 7.10B says. Rule 7.10: (b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged. That's fine ....but in the OP ....the b/r hasn't obtained a base Jeff - via Tapat Where does 7.10B say he has to obtain a base for it to be effective?

How do you explain away 7.10B which is part of the appeal rule? Just asking is all... Manny, there is no need to "explain away" anything with respect to 7.10b, but I will attempt to clarify my position on it. It is clearly referring to missed bases, whether a runner is advancing or returning to a base. A runner cannot miss a base he had never even reached. Advancing simply means that they are moving towards home, while returning means the opposite. If a runner misses second base while advancing towards third, then he can be out on appeal. If a runner misses second base while returning to first (as in a caught fly ball situation), then he can be out on appeal. 7.10b has no relevance with respect to runners that never reached a base. Hope that helps. But that isn't what 7.10B says. Rule 7.10: (b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.

How do you explain away 7.10B which is part of the appeal rule? Just asking is all...

WUM disagrees and says run scores. MLBUM says nothing on the matter. PBUC says nothing on the matter. I checked last night. I do not own a J/R manual.

This is a great break-down however ...........7.10 won't apply to the B/R, because he hasn't aqcuired first base yet, ... he's still the 'batter' ...... yes? His status changes from batter to batter-runner. That change allows 4.09 and 7.10 to be activated.

Rule 2.00: An APPEAL is the act of a fielder in claiming violation of the rules by the offensive team. Rule 7.10: (b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged. Rule 7.10 AR: Appeal plays may require an umpire to recognize an apparent fourth out. If the third out is made during a play in which an appeal play is sustained on another runner, the appeal play decision takes precedence in determining the out. If there is more than one appeal during a play that ends a half-inning, the defense may elect to take the out that gives it the advantage. For the purpose of this rule, the defensive team has left the field when the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory on their way to the bench or clubhouse. By looking at the face value of the rules, and in the spirit, the failure of the BR to touch first base is a violation of the rules. He is required to go to first, where he would be declared safe by the umpire, reaches safely on a hit, error, award, or other reason, or is declared out for having been tagged, forced, or declared out by the umpire by other rule, or out on appeal. 7.10 allows the defense to appeal provided they say it is an appeal and they execute it properly by throwing to the offended base, or tagging the individual appealed on. Since this would be a fourth out, the umpire may need to recognize the fourth out, and because the BR was put out before touching 1st for the third out, no run may score, Rule 4.09(1). 7.10B allows two conditions: He fails to touch each base in order before he is tagged, and he fails to touch each base in order before the missed base is tagged. In your play, they tag the BR directly. Three outs no runs (If you follow all of this easy to read logic). Jim Evans concurs Harry's manual disagrees MLBUM says nothing on it. PBUC says nothing on it. I recognize the BR being tagged, it is advantageous for the defense to nullify the run through the running violation, 4.09, and no runs score. The BR violated the rules. He didn't run to first as required by rule, even though he got injured. Tough noogies. Three outs. NO RUNS SCORE. I don't see how you can just ignore the BR's running voilation because the apparent 3rd out was made at home. Not running to first after a ball is hit is a rule violation and can be appealed. (5.04, 5.06)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. While it may be used in a legal proceeding, it doesn't make it a "legal document." Laugh as you may, but it is absolutely true. An ejection report is a legal document. Just because it may have less importance at youth leagues, don't negate it's importance.

Remember, your ejection report is a legal document that can be used by any administrative body, or even a court of law, for purposes of discipline, so it is very important that you stick directly to the facts and do not inflate the situation with your personal feelings. State exactly the time, inning, number of outs, anything to do with the batter if involved, including his count, what each participant did. Refer to each member as "Mr. xxxx"; whereas "xxxx" is their last name, after initially using their title, i.e., manager, coach, etc. Do not forget to put stated words in quotations. If you were physically touched or threatened, say so. You must include what the offending individual(s) did and what you did to respond. Be as concise as possible, however, do not runneth over with the pen. Stick to the facts. Say it as briefly as possible. CYA.

Wha? Did I say something wrong?