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58 members have voted

  1. 1. True or false: The force play slide rule is only in effect if there is a slide..

    • True
      4
    • False
      54
  2. 2. True or false: If a forced runner elects not to slide, by rule there can be no FPSR violation.

    • True
      6
    • False
      52
  3. 3. True or false: A forced runner may elect not to slide, but if he so elects any contact or alteration of the play will be an FPSR violation.

    • True
      47
    • False
      11


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Guys,

 

I'm having a little difficulty persuading a couple of colleagues about the proper interpretation of the FED FPSR. I would appreciate it if you would all take my little "FPSR" test. 

 

Any supporting commentary would also be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

JM

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JM, I voted T, T, F.  After looking at the book, 8-4-2b specifically mentions the force play:

 

"...or, on a force play, does not slide in a direct line between the bases;"

"PENALTY: On a force-play slide with less than two outs, the runner is declared out, as well as the batter-runner."

 

If a runner doesn't slide, then he can be guilty of interference in which case both he, and the "other" runner could both be declared out.  However, the only time both will be out automatically would be when the runner doesn't legally slide on the force play.

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8.4.2 SITUATION W:

The bases are loaded with (a), less than two outs, or (b), two outs. B4 hits a ground ball to F4, who throws to F2 for the force out at home. The throw pulls F2 off home plate several steps toward the first-base side. R1, seeing F2 ready to make a play on B4 at first base, touches home plate and maliciously crashes into F2.

RULING: (a) Since this is a force-play situation, R1 and B4 are declared out and no one scores. R1 will be ejected from the game. In (b), R1 will be declared out and ejected for the contact, and no run will score.

 

In this case play, R1 doesn't slide and the FPSR is enforced....I believe even if MC was not called. 

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I voted F F T, but I'm wondering the wording in #3. ANY contact? R1 slides into 2nd, F4 is in front of or on the bag. If R1 slides legally in this sitch and contacts F4 I don't think you have FPSR. Am I wrong here? 

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Grayhawk, You answered TTF??? Please enlighten me as to why you believe this.

FPSR has nothing to do with actually sliding. If he elects to slide, it must be a legal slide. If he elect NOT to slide, his actions/presence must not alter the DT actions.

Example: R1 knows he's dead. He stops attempting to reach 2B and peels away toward RF. This is a legal way not to violate FPSR. If he chooses to stop trying for 2B and stands stock still 10' from 2B he may possibly be in violation of FPSR.

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I voted F F T, but I'm wondering the wording in #3. ANY contact? R1 slides into 2nd, F4 is in front of or on the bag. If R1 slides legally in this sitch and contacts F4 I don't think you have FPSR. Am I wrong here? 

 

Rich,

 

Part of the "condition" in Q3 is that the runner does NOT slide.

 

JM

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I voted F F T, but I'm wondering the wording in #3. ANY contact? R1 slides into 2nd, F4 is in front of or on the bag. If R1 slides legally in this sitch and contacts F4 I don't think you have FPSR. Am I wrong here? 

 

Rich,

 

Part of the "condition" in Q3 is that the runner does NOT slide.

 

JM

Gotcha...So I stand with my T for #3  :nod:

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Whoa Grayhawk. The FPSR is ALWAYS in effect when there's a force. It doesn't require a slide, but the provisions of the rules are in effecet.

 

Unless I'm missing something, I think the answers are F, F T. I could post the text of the rule, but isn't the rule pretty clear?

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FWIW, the word 'any' does present a conundrum. I had to really consider the possibilities before I answered. I believe there are possible situations where some contact would be legal. (ie. Initiated by a smart F4/6 trying to draw the penalty) But, like any rules quiz, I gave the answer I thought was expected instead of trying to interpolate all possible scenarios.

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grayhawk,

 

...  However, the only time both will be out automatically would be when the runner doesn't legally slide on the force play.

 

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that electing not to slide and running through the base is a legal slide on a force play??

 

Could you explain that, because it's a little confusing to me.

 

JM

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I believe they are all false. In question 1, if the player stops in the baseline thus altering the throw I have a violation. There does not have to be a slide to enforce the rule. Of course with question 2 if the player doesnt slide directly to the bag you have a violation. And with 3, if the defensive player is standing on or in front of the bag and there is a legal slide by the offensive player, there is no violation of the rule.

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I believe they are all false. In question 1, if the player stops in the baseline thus altering the throw I have a violation. There does not have to be a slide to enforce the rule. Of course with question 2 if the player doesnt slide directly to the bag you have a violation. And with 3, if the defensive player is standing on or in front of the bag and there is a legal slide by the offensive player, there is no violation of the rule.

#3 has runner not sliding

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I believe they are all false. In question 1, if the player stops in the baseline thus altering the throw I have a violation. There does not have to be a slide to enforce the rule. Of course with question 2 if the player doesnt slide directly to the bag you have a violation. And with 3, if the defensive player is standing on or in front of the bag and there is a legal slide by the offensive player, there is no violation of the rule.

#3 has runner not sliding

3 does not have him sliding or not sliding. It says he doesn't have to slide but if he does any contact or alteration is illegal. As written it is false. 

1. He does not have to slide

2. the rule says if he slides it has to legal. That includes sliding at or away from the base. There are forms of contact that are illegal, others that are legal. If you slide at the base and contact the fielder in front or on top of the base and all other aspects of the slide is legal, no violation. 

3. Standing up and having contact is quite likely a violation but it still has to create an alteration, so bayou's statement is also false.

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Michael,

 

#3 says he "elects not to slide". That means he didn't slide.

 

I believe the rule say contact OR alteration. Not contact AND alteration.

 

JM

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 A forced runner may elect not to slide, but if he so elects any contact or alteration of the play will be an FPSR violation.

The question is asking if he slides does any contact or alteration constitute a violation. Any contact is false, any alteration is true.

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I placed three on the poll in the quote it absolutely is asking about a slide. Remember that  the conjunction,but, negates what precedes it. 

but if he so elects

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Can someone cite the actual FPSR rule number(s)?   I believe some of the confusion may originate from reading different parts of the rules. 

 

Also, we need to be clear that either the FPSR is violated or some other rule is violated. 

 

I think we need to be absolutely clear on exactly what rule(s) we are discussing. 

--

 

Also, asking if the rule violates the FPSR may be ambiguous.   Asking if the runner is out, automatically out, automatic double play, TOP, TOI, etc. is absolute. 

 

I think rephrasing the questions may alleviate some confusion. 

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dix,

 

Good question, and surprisingly difficult to answer.

 

I would suggest that the FPSR is "defined" in: 8-4-2b, 8-4-2f, 2-32-1&2, and about a half dozen case plays.

 

It is the aggregate of those rules that say what a forced runner may and may not do at his "forced to" base.

 

JM

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Michael,

 

I placed three on the poll in the quote it absolutely is asking about a slide. Remember that  the conjunction,but, negates what precedes it. 

but if he so elects

 

The conjunction "but" in no way negates the preceding clause.

 

Example: You may choose to drink and drive, but if you make that choice you could get a DUI.

 

I'll grant my wording is not as clear as it could be.

 

JM

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noumpere,

 

FFT, but I also gave some pause to the word "any" in question 3.

 

I would agree that "any" was not a good word to use.

 

JM

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    • By grayhawk
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