New OBR Balk Rule (8.05c)

[GR_ump]

So MLB has decided to speed up the game and get rid of the third to first move.  Rules have yet to be published however so now we have all of the different associations handling it differently.  Pony says follow OBR, USSSA is treating third as first and allowing no fakes to third.  Fed will undoubtedly react next year.  The question that I have is, if the pitcher steps to third and doesn't throw, at what point can he make a play on R1?  What a mess.  If anyone has seen the OBR language please post.  Season has started in the Pacific Northwest and we need the rule.

 

[UmpJM]

GR_ump,

 

The new OBR rule language prohibits fakes to 3B (as well as 1B) from the rubber, so it would be a balk if the pitcher stepped to 3B without throwing.

 

JM

[sdix00]

Exactly - any enforcement guidelines originally exclusive to 1B, now apply to 3B.  That includes the requirement to throw directly to 3B.  No longer can F1 step and throw to F5 in front of or behind the bag. 

 

The new OBR rule only added two words - instead of "first base" it now reads "first or third base".    The new rule is SUPER simple and there should be no confusion now that we understand how it is written.

 

Only coaches who think of the "3rd to 1st" move will freak out when you balk a guy for stepping to 3B without a throw. 

[NFUA_44]

OBR has made it super simple.  USSSA tried to complicate it originally and then got on board with what the OBR language is going to reflect.  I'm fairly sure given their propensity to get a little over the top FED will try something funny, but eventually will gravitate towards everything else.

 

Called a straight up fake to third, and a third to first this past weekend at a USSSA event, didn't hear a peep.

[sdix00]

First weekend of PONY I balked a kid for stepping to 3B without a throw. 

 

Mgr: "Can you tell him what he did, Steve?"

Me: "You need to do that, Josh."

Mgr:  "Yeah, I don't know what he did."

Me: "OK, let's talk then."

[noumpere]

First weekend of PONY I balked a kid for stepping to 3B without a throw. 

 

Mgr: "Can you tell him what he did, Steve?"

Me: "You need to do that, Josh."

Mgr:  "Yeah, I don't know what he did."

Me: "OK, let's talk then."

It's okay to give a simple explanation to the pitcher.  Heck your not going to give any more than that to the coach.

 

I personally wouldnt have given the first answer you did -- but I do recognize that its a personal choice.

[KLAH316]

We are required to cover the new rule in EVERY USSSA Plate meeting until further notice....

Kind of sucks when its the 4th game a team has played over the weekend on Sunday afternoon.

 

The head of the assn. says to do it so I do.

[NFUA_44]

We are required to cover the new rule in EVERY USSSA Plate meeting until further notice....

Kind of sucks when its the 4th game a team has played over the weekend on Sunday afternoon.

 

The head of the assn. says to do it so I do.

That's just straight up silly and begging for trouble.  Not sure how they would then justify not standing around at the plate meeting and answering any "knotty" questions that should pop up. 

 

Zero chance I'm having any kind of rules clinic at a plate meeting that should be over in under a minute.

 

KLAH, I do understand you gotta do what they want, when in Rome............I would just always forget, YMMV

[GR_ump]

GR_ump,

 

The new OBR rule language prohibits fakes to 3B (as well as 1B) from the rubber, so it would be a balk if the pitcher stepped to 3B without throwing.

 

JM

Several great responses here.  Not to be rude but I need folks to site their resources.  There are several association "rule" guys out there that all have great opinions however I need to see something concrete to move forward with.  So far MLB just seems to be full of great news articles.  Anyone have a contact within PBUC? I'd love to hear what the schools have from them.

[Richvee]

  If anyone has seen the OBR language please post.  Season has started in the Pacific Northwest and we need the rule.

Here's the new wording in the 8.05© comment

 

A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base,

and is required to throw (except to second base) because he steps. It is a balk if, with

runners on first and third, the pitcher steps toward third and does not throw, merely to bluff the

runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first

base.  It is legal for a pitcher to feint a throw to second base.

[sdix00]

  If anyone has seen the OBR language please post.  Season has started in the Pacific Northwest and we need the rule.

Here's the new wording in the 8.05© comment

 

A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base,

and is required to throw (except to second base) because he steps. It is a balk if, with

runners on first and third, the pitcher steps toward third and does not throw, merely to bluff the

runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first

base.  It is legal for a pitcher to feint a throw to second base.

 

 

IMO, the comment just muddies up the waters, even worse than the "deception" clause.

 

IMO, all you need is 8.05(b )

 

8.05(b) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first or third base and fails 

to complete the throw;

 

GR_ump - 

There is this doc.  I can't vouch for it's source, but it looks legit.   Sorry I can't do better.  But kudos for insisting on a source.  (It is a PDF)

http://umpire-empire.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=868

[carolinablue]

I don't know why they just didn't make feinting to all bases illegal.

[Thunderheads]

We are required to cover the new rule in EVERY USSSA Plate meeting until further notice....

Kind of sucks when its the 4th game a team has played over the weekend on Sunday afternoon.

 

The head of the assn. says to do it so I do.

That's just straight up silly and begging for trouble.  Not sure how they would then justify not standing around at the plate meeting and answering any "knotty" questions that should pop up. 

 

Zero chance I'm having any kind of rules clinic at a plate meeting that should be over in under a minute.

 

KLAH, I do understand you gotta do what they want, when in Rome............I would just always forget, YMMV

I tend to disagree here, not exclusively to NFUA, but the concept in general....

 

What is "begging for trouble" is EXPECTING a coach to thoroughly understand the new wording, thus the new rule,...right? See what I mean?

 

While I'm not saying that USSSA requesting their umpires include this new rule in plate meetings is proper, .... a simple comment "reminder, gentlemen of the new balk rule,..any questions?"

It's not a dissertation, it's just a quick reminder.

 

Heck, when I do games that are OBR modified w/ the FED slide rule, and we clarify our rule set, when I'm on the dish I politey remind them that NO ONE IS REQUIRED to slide,, ........blah blah ...AND EVEN WHEN I DO, I will still get from time to time .... "he's got to slide blue" from the dugout

 

Anyhow, .....my .02 ........... a 5 second comment can prevent a 5 MINUTE argument later in the game.  YMMV

 

GR_Ump ...  are you good w/ the 8.05 (b ) reference?  

[noumpere]

We are required to cover the new rule in EVERY USSSA Plate meeting until further notice....

Kind of sucks when its the 4th game a team has played over the weekend on Sunday afternoon.

 

The head of the assn. says to do it so I do.

That's just straight up silly and begging for trouble.  Not sure how they would then justify not standing around at the plate meeting and answering any "knotty" questions that should pop up. 

 

Zero chance I'm having any kind of rules clinic at a plate meeting that should be over in under a minute.

 

KLAH, I do understand you gotta do what they want, when in Rome............I would just always forget, YMMV

They meeting still only takes a minute.  Its common in many areas and at many levels to remind coaches of the new rules at the beginning of the season.  and, this is a pretty significnat change and hasn't really been published yet.

 

Heck, even in MLB they cover the ground rules on the first game of a series every time even when the manager and umpires have been at the park a dozen times already that season.

 

Now if this continues more than say a month into the season then that starts to become a little excessive but for now I think it's a good thing.

[NFUA_44]

We are required to cover the new rule in EVERY USSSA Plate meeting until further notice....

Kind of sucks when its the 4th game a team has played over the weekend on Sunday afternoon.

The head of the assn. says to do it so I do.

That's just straight up silly and begging for trouble. Not sure how they would then justify not standing around at the plate meeting and answering any "knotty" questions that should pop up.

Zero chance I'm having any kind of rules clinic at a plate meeting that should be over in under a minute.

KLAH, I do understand you gotta do what they want, when in Rome............I would just always forget, YMMV They meeting still only takes a minute. Its common in many areas and at many levels to remind coaches of the new rules at the beginning of the season. and, this is a pretty significnat change and hasn't really been published yet.

Heck, even in MLB they cover the ground rules on the first game of a series every time even when the manager and umpires have been at the park a dozen times already that season.

Now if this continues more than say a month into the season then that starts to become a little excessive but for now I think it's a good thing.

At higher levels I can see the logic. I'm talking more specifically about things below HSV. I have watched to many partners get roped into holding a mini clinic instead of a plate meeting which can lead to you looking like your not willing to answer rules questions after you put a rules "clarification" on the table, because at some point you have to cut it off. You almost guarantee that a conflicting call is going to happen where the convo will get started with "But you said...". (Love those baseball gods!)

As I said earlier, when in Rome. I understand groups are going to want it covered, its just not something I will personally do, until the CCA says so or a conference group mandates it. Just MHO

Jeff, my defenition of "trouble" relates mostly to the less experienced coaches that would view this more as an opportunity to chat about myths and perceptions. When explaining a call or situation on the field "less is more" in our conversation right? This is my primary point. Not to be unapproachable or unwilling to clarify, but to limit how far something goes in its context (I.e. A plate meet). If the governing body is that concerned they should make the effort to inform their customers before they get to the check out counter. FED and NCAA make sure their coaches are informed. In this area even a lot of the USSSA type Org's make it a POE to get it out. Again my .02

[jjb]

While I can see the merits of mentioning it at the PM, I can forsee two results from doing so:

 

First, they're not listening: they rarely do. Most times they're hearing the "wah-wah-wah" from the Charley Brown cartoons, and just want to get the game going. Call the balk after mentioning it, they'll still look at you like it's the first time they've ever heard it.

 

Second, the plate meeting will now become a clinic. They're going to use the opportunity to begin the "OK, well suppose the pitcher------is this a balk?" conversation. You might as well bring out the beer pitchers and chicken wings, you're going to be there a while.

 

I've got coaches training tonight: I'll put up a slide with the change, open it to discussion, and let it go.

[KLAH316]

All I say is "Remember that the fake to 3rd from the rubber is now a balk..." Then I look at both managers and say "Understand?" and wait for the affermative response. That takes all of 10 seconds and it's something that I have to do for the USSSA assignor. It's really not that big of a deal and all the guys I work with say pretty much the same thing.

 

Here is the email from my assignor to all of the umpires:

A General Broadcast As a reminder all umpires will remind the coaches at "EVERY"plate meeting that "ANY" fake/feint to 3rd is now a balk by rule. We know if the pitcher legally disengages he is now an infielder and not a pitcher. Some umpires are not reminding the coaches and there are still umpires who are not calling the balk. I am still receiving emails to this effect. Kindly enforce the rule and the plate reminder.

 

Again, I think that by the 4th game of the weekend it's pretty silly but I do as I'm told!