Does the term "Blue" offend you?

[Forest Ump]

BTW. Calling you "Blue" does not refer to the color of your shirt. Can you imagine some coach calling you "Cream"? It derives from when the fans called the umpire "Blue" because they perceived he blew the call. With that in mind, it is derogatory.

I TOTALLY disagree. I've read countless articles where the common denominator, from where the term comes from, is the color of the jerseys umpires (specifically amateur umpires) wear. If you think otherwise, Forest, well, you think otherwise. You're entitled to your opinion...and your perceptions.

I liken the term "blue" to the terms "ref" and "ump". Nothing I take as disrespect...even if they know my name.

Jeff..You are entitled to your opinion and perceptions as well. However, consider this. It didn't start with amature umpires, it started with professional umpires many years ago, long before you and I were born. Have you ever seen a professional umpire from years long past wear blue?

[Umpire in Chief]

One of the reference books I own gives the etymology of the term it may be J/R, but I'm not certain off the top of my head. I'm sure somebody here can give the exact citation.

Also, in Standing the Gaff I believe it gives the origins.

Both give the origins to a blown call.

That said; I believe most coaches, players & spectators say it believing the reason is the traditional color of the uniform and not a slur towards us.

[AZump78]

So from the way this thread has unfolded, I think we can safely say (with a few exceptions here and there) that in rec/youth/travel and most HS ball "blue" is very common and generally accepted.

At the college and pro level, its is not cared for and quickly corrected.

Varsity HS ball seems to be a grey area where an umpire may like the phrase, be indifferent, or not care for it and correct a coach when used.

[yawetag]

So from the way this thread has unfolded, I think we can safely say (with a few exceptions here and there) that in rec/youth/travel and most HS ball "blue" is very common and generally accepted.

At the college and pro level, its is not cared for and quickly corrected.

Varsity HS ball seems to be a grey area where an umpire may like the phrase, be indifferent, or not care for it and correct a coach when used.

I can agree, but I think we can agree that coaches at the Varsity level and above generally take the game more professionally than those at the lower levels. Because of this, they make it an effort to remember your name -- usually without the umpire reminding them.

[AZump78]

So from the way this thread has unfolded, I think we can safely say (with a few exceptions here and there) that in rec/youth/travel and most HS ball "blue" is very common and generally accepted.

At the college and pro level, its is not cared for and quickly corrected.

Varsity HS ball seems to be a grey area where an umpire may like the phrase, be indifferent, or not care for it and correct a coach when used.

I can agree, but I think we can agree that coaches at the Varsity level and above generally take the game more professionally than those at the lower levels. Because of this, they make it an effort to remember your name -- usually without the umpire reminding them.

No question-the two go very much hand-in-hand....

[sdix00]

I am a practical person, to a fault sometimes. I don't stand up when a lady sits at my table. I wear ball caps indoors, except in places where it's really a sticky issue (a Jim Evans classroom, (or any classroom) for example.) When folks ask me about it, I simply tell them if they can give me a good reason other than etiquette or tradition, then I would be happy to conform. But nothing drives me more nuts, than folks doing things just because it has always been that way.

That said, pro baseball is a bubble. It is it's own little world with its own rules and LONG traditions, so entrenched that to upset some of them would cause more issues than it would solve. Think Divisional Alignment where you have 6 teams in one division and 4 in another. Or the fact that Pitchers still hit in the NL even though the DH has revolutionalized the game. Or the fact that coaches still wear uniforms.

Youth ball has few roots, little tradition among it's coaches and players. They generally have not been in the game long enough to learn what is and is not done. They just don't know that you shouldn't call the umpire "Blue". But the cool thing is that they also discover that when you do call the umpire "blue", or fail to wear a uniform in the coaches box, that the world doesn't end. It is still baseball.

I personally don't think most of the coaches are experienced enough to know that "blue" could be derogatory, and if I am relatively convinced that they don't mean anything by it, I really don't care. Even at a higher level, if I have a coach call me "blue" who really doesn't have a clue, then that is his problem, not mine. And as others have said on this thread, the better managers call us by name. The better managers win. The better managers talk less anyway.

[JaxRolo]

I am a practical person, to a fault sometimes. I don't stand up when a lady sits at my table. I wear ball caps indoors, except in places where it's really a sticky issue (a Jim Evans classroom, (or any classroom) for example.) When folks ask me about it, I simply tell them if they can give me a good reason other than etiquette or tradition, then I would be happy to conform. But nothing drives me more nuts, than folks doing things just because it has always been that way.

That said, pro baseball is a bubble. It is it's own little world with its own rules and LONG traditions, so entrenched that to upset some OF them would cause more issues than it would solve. Think Divisional Alignment where you have 6 teams in one division and 4 in another. Or the fact that Pitchers still hit in the NL even though the DH has revolutionalized the game. Or the fact that coaches still wear uniforms.

Youth ball has few roots, little tradition among it's coaches and players. They generally have not been in the game long enough to learn what is and is not done. They just don't know that you shouldn't call the umpire "Blue". But the cool thing is that they also discover that when you do call the umpire "blue", or fail to wear a uniform in the coaches box, that the world doesn't end. It is still baseball.

I personally don't think most OF the coaches are experienced enough to know that "blue" could be derogatory, and if I am relatively convinced that they don't mean anything by it, I really don't care. Even at a higher level, if I have a coach call me "blue" who really doesn't have a clue, then that is his problem, not mine. And as others have said on this thread, the better managers call us by name. The better managers win. The better managers talk less anyway.

Very Well said. Specially the last paragraph.

[UmpJeff]

BTW. Calling you "Blue" does not refer to the color OF your shirt. Can you imagine some coach calling you "Cream"? It derives from when the fans called the umpire "Blue" because they perceived he blew the call. With that in mind, it is derogatory.

I TOTALLY disagree. I've read countless articles where the common denominator, from where the term comes from, is the color OF the jerseys umpires (specifically amateur umpires) wear. If you think otherwise, Forest, well, you think otherwise. You're entitled to your opinion...and your perceptions.

I liken the term "blue" to the terms "ref" and "ump". Nothing I take as disrespect...even if they know my name.

Jeff..You are entitled to your opinion and perceptions as well. However, consider this. It didn't start with amature umpires, it started with professional umpires many years ago, long before you and I were born. Have you ever seen a professional umpire from years long past wear blue?

Forest, I concede that I haven't considered the origin coming from times long ago. I've been in the game only a moment considering this game has been around for hundreds OF years. True, it may have stemmed from a 'blown' call or he 'blew' a call. I'm just having a difficult time connecting the dots...calling someone a verb is perplexing to me...especially, in this context. It has a bit OF non-sequitur-ism to it, in my opinion.

Anyway, the long and short OF it is that I don't take offence to being called 'Blue', 'Bleu', or 'Blew'. Like someone mentioned above, the people using the term have absolutely no idea where it originated. I'm guessing they're as ignorant as me considering I have read, and believed, that it was due to the color OF our jerseys.

[UmpJeff]

Not sure why my 'OF's are coming out as 'OF's...

[sdix00]

Not sure why my 'OF's are coming out as 'OF's...

It is the new Acronym Feature. It is auto-formatting. (Mouse over "OF")

[Texarkana]

I have never really given this much thought but as I think about it, I can not remember a HS or small college coach ever calling me "blue" They pretty much know who I am so address me by my name. I will sometimes help out with some of the youth leagues and a lot of the coaches (dads who put on a jersey) really do not know any better and call me blue. They do not mean to be disrespectful but have heard the term and think that is what they are supposed to do. I am not sweating that at all. But it usually clues me in to the baseball saviness they possess. I adress the coaches as "Coach Smith" or "Coach Johnson" even if I know their first name. Just a personal preference. I may know one coach well and know his name but not know the other coach. I do not want the other coach to think I am on real friendly terms with the other coach by calling them by their first name. So I just stick with Coach - - - - .

Sometimes I wished the coach would not have knowed my name. I remember about 10 years ago I was calling a HS game and one of the head coaches was a friend of mine. I made a call that he obviously saw a different way. All of a sudden I hear a familiar voice coming out of the dugout, "Dave, baseball is a pretty simple game, all you have to do is watch it" I have had a few laughs with him and others over that one.

[catsbackr]

Wow, you call college ball and help out with youth leagues?

You're a better man than me, LOL!

[mstaylor]

Wow, you call college ball and help out with youth leagues?

You're a better man than me, LOL!

I called college for years and always kept a plate of 60ft games. My thought was that they deserve good umpires, I may find a diamond in the rough umpire wise and I like working with kids. As far as finding new umpires, I have been very successful. I have had a number of guys that started as teenagers and are still umpiring with us. Two of those young guys have gone to school, one to Harry's and one to Evans.

[dumbdumb]

That guy I ran into years ago that went to the school said that in the MiLB world, blue is the name of a damn dog like in Cool Hand Luke.

Also they never blew anyone.

How about a team with the color yellow in their uniform. Are you going to call them yellow (not a very good connotation).

Just like calling a manager in MiLB a coach or skippy. Blue is an insult at that level, so they are expected to learn names. (It goes both ways).

Its not as bad as the as the turning your hat sideways to give you the Elmer Fudd, Donald Duck, Bozo the clown umpire and Gomer Pyle duffus look that gets you ejected, but it is usually met head on by telling the player your name.

[Thunderheads]

How come no one has heard the old , pre-1845 / pre Civil War era stories of how umpires used to get beat up. Pre 1845, you threw a ball at the runner to get him out, and sometimes those throws would hit the umpire. I had heard the original term of "blue" stemmed from "black and blue" .............

although, at the moment, I can't "confirm" it ......other than this link which only talks about them getting 'beat up' ...

http://www.sdabu.com/history_main.htm

[grayhawk]

I don't mind being called Blue, whether it be coaches, players or fans. One time in a high school game, a coach was trying to get my attention by using my name. The funny thing is, I didn't hear him until he yelled out "Blue!" He said he called my name 2 or 3 times before resorting to "Blue," which got my attention the first time. :smachhead:

[Jeff C.]

It doesn't bother me either.

[Nate]

It doesn't bother me much when a player or coach says it.. But if a coach does say it to me.. I'll talk to him and slide in "And by the way my name is Nate."

[Stan W.]

Unlike many, I do not prefer to be called by my first name. I do however introduce myself to the coaches, but that is the last time I will use first names. I have a bit of an aversion to being called by my first name by coaches and players, as I worry that that familiarity could be miscontrued by the opposing team as to mean that I am biased. I still introduce myself to coaches I have known for years, both on and off the field. When I am on the field dressed in blue, I am the umpire, off it I am Stan....

I also do not have a problem being called Blue or Ump....But thats just me.....and as always my .02...

Now my thoughts really apply to lower level baseball ....it enters more into the summer ball, travel team and tournament seasons when one team may know the crew more than the others....In the HS and college level and of course pro level, it is very common for both coaches and umpires to call each other by the first name. Most often those coaches and umpires have long associations and are well known to both sides....when you have been doing this as long as MSTaylor and I have, most often it is difficult to find a coach who does not know you (or your name).....

Early in my umpiring career I did a tourney....one of the teams I had done games for in the year was in the championship game and I was the UIC. The game went well with no issues ( I thought) .....after the game, as I was passing the losing team dugout, I heard the coach say "I knew we were going to get hosed when I heard those umpires calling their coaches by the first name".......

Kind of made an impression on me I did not want to have made....In hindsight, I could have alleviated the problem by making sure I used both coaches names..........but since then, I have mainly used coach and sir to address coaches.....

[cuban]

I call all coaches by their first name. The only people I call coach are people I played for.

[yawetag]

I have a bit of an aversion to being called by my first name by coaches and players, as I worry that that familiarity could be miscontrued by the opposing team as to mean that I am biased.

You're introducing yourself to the coaches at the plate. If the opposing team's coach can't remember your name, that's his fault. I have respect for coaches that use our name.

[noumpere]

A friend of mine who went to Wendelstedt's this past year and I were talking about this a few days ago, and the way he explained it to me really made sense. He related it as to someone going into a hardware store and rather than call the employee by his name, just yelling "Hey, Smock!" (or whatever kind of clothing they have on) It got me thinking that although we introduce ourselves by name at the plate meeting, I'm called "Blue" at least 5 times a game.

Does anyone here think that "Hey, Blue!" is disrespectful? Personally, I feel as though (especially for HS and above games) that if a coach/manager is going to come out an and talk to me, he should at least call me by my name, when I call him by his. Thoughts?

Just one more example of what works or is expected in pro ball doesnt necesarily work or is not expected at the amateur levels. Then too this can vary by geographical area.

[Stan W.]

I have a bit of an aversion to being called by my first name by coaches and players, as I worry that that familiarity could be miscontrued by the opposing team as to mean that I am biased.

You're introducing yourself to the coaches at the plate. If the opposing team's coach can't remember your name, that's his fault. I have respect for coaches that use our name.

And Yaw, I agree with you, as I do introduce myself to the coaches at the plate...and make a point of saying it clearly.......not an issue at all at my higher level games, as I am known pretty well byt the coaches in my area.

all of this hangup came from lower level summer ball....

[yawetag]

all of this hangup came from lower level summer ball....

Different beast alltogether. I'm lucky if they remember what organization I work for.

[UmpTTS43]

"Darrin, my name is Troy."