Proposed Rule Changes

[johnnyg08]

19 hours ago, grayhawk said:

When your three hour games regularly go under 2 1/2, you won’t regret paying $80 for a timer.

Yikes....maybe I'm one of the lucky ones. My Fed games rarely hit 2.5 hrs.....They're almost all right around 2 or under. 

[dumbdumb]

17 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Yikes....maybe I'm one of the lucky ones. My Fed games rarely hit 2.5 hrs.....They're almost all right around 2 or under. 

dang j08, so just like an umpire (living with the angels) who messes up a rule and nobody notices and protests, you are (living with the angels) and getting all quick 4 1/2 inning mercy rule games. i had heard someone out there was getting them all. tip of the hat to ya.

[beerguy55]

10 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

For what it is worth, here is the NFHS Softball version:

 

I think they overcomplicate it and some of their verbiage is seemingly contradictory.  

Allow the defense to use the colored portion ONLY on a U3K play originating from the foul side.  Plain and simple, that is the ONLY time that side should exist for the defense.  If a throw pulls the fielder off the bag, they shouldn't get an extra 15" into foul territory to make a play.  If a fielder kicks a ball into foul territory, they shouldn't get an extra 15" to make a play.  

With the double first base, strictly enforce RLI to keep the batter-runner on that side.

Require the offense to use it anytime a play is being made at first base from a batted ball.  Allow them to use it for U3K.  Beyond that, it doesn't exist.

Agree 99.99% - Though I can live with it, I'd even drop the U3K play - yes, theoretically it allows F3 to set up on the foul side of the bag, as they would in a single-bag configuration, to avoid the B/R being hit by the throw, and minimize collisions between F3 and B/R - what I don't like is there's no timing requirement for F3 to establish which side they want to use, so b/r could be forced to make a last second reaction to be compliant, making the crossover moot.  And frankly, a bad throw can pull F3 in either direction.

Just keep it simple...defense gets white, offense gets orange/red/green/puce/chartreuse side.

We're not trying to eliminate collisions...just minimize.

Perfectly fine with b/r touching either side as they round first on a hit to the outfield, but once they pass first base, and/or if the player in question is a runner at the beginning of the play, not a batter/runner, the colored side of the bag shouldn't "exist".

And, yes, this means if your runner is on only the colored side of the bag when the pitcher starts their delivery, they are out for "leading off".  (I'm not a fan of this enforcement as the runner has no advantage, but I'm also not a fan of coaches trying to argue they're on the base).

Notice they're referencing the play at first as a "force". 

[JSam21]

18 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

@JSam21 … curious about your objection to the double first base.  (Other than not trusting NFHS to not screw it up.)

As for malicious contact, if you have A (intentional excessive force), you have B (intent to injure).  That’s my judgement.  Easy enough.

Requirements for schools with turf fields to have to install a 2nd peg. Schools that don't have their own facilities and use public parks would have to get the city to install them... ETC. It isn't really an issue that I think needs a "requirement".

[JSam21]

22 hours ago, grayhawk said:

When your three hour games regularly go under 2 1/2, you won’t regret paying $80 for a timer.

I think the inclusion of limited defensive conferences with the players would reduce game times more than the pitch clock. 

[BLWizzRanger]

19 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

Requirements for schools with turf fields to have to install a 2nd peg. Schools that don't have their own facilities and use public parks would have to get the city to install them... ETC. It isn't really an issue that I think needs a "requirement".

If they can make 'turf' portable mounds that don't slip on the turf, they can attach a second bag, reinforced with the fair side, that don't slip on the turf.  I don't think this is as much of an issue as its made out to be.

[Richvee]

5 pitches within 2 minutes from the final out of the previous frame. Six conferences, 3 with a coach. That stops the powwows at the mound after warmup pitches which this year seems to be the biggest time waster I’m seeing on the high school fields. I’m seeing less requests for time by a batter unless they’re genuinely getting frozen, and less stepping off unless F1/F2 can’t get together on signs…..Maybe I’ve just had a good schedule and getting better pace of play games. But I think there’s a trickle down effect too. They see a better pace watching MLB, a lot know when they get to college they’re not allowed the time outs, unlimited step offs…. At any rate, whatever the reason , I’ve seen better pace of play on HS this year. Limiting player conferences and a strict 2 minutes between innings would go a long way, IMO. 

[johnnyg08]

10 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

dang j08, so just like an umpire (living with the angels) who messes up a rule and nobody notices and protests, you are (living with the angels) and getting all quick 4 1/2 inning mercy rule games. i had heard someone out there was getting them all. tip of the hat to ya.

Those are the long ones! Our 7s are usually 2hrs or less. If I'm with the angels now, I'll take it! 🙂

 

[Velho]

8 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Those are the long ones! Our 7s are usually 2hrs or less. If I'm with the angels now, I'll take it! 🙂

My son's games (HS class of 2022) were all 2.5-4hrs.

[johnnyg08]

2 minutes ago, Velho said:

My son's games (HS class of 2022) were all 2.5-4hrs.

Gross. Rare, rare occasions we hit 2.5 and I want to gouge my eyes out with a toothpick when it happens b/c is means the game was absolutely awful. We're the lucky ones I guess. 

[Thatsnotyou]

9 hours ago, JSam21 said:

I think the inclusion of limited defensive conferences with the players would reduce game times more than the pitch clock. 

Agreed. But we also need an actual clock between innings. It’ll stop pitchers from taking forever to leave the dugout…then walking out, and it’ll ensure a catcher of some sort is always ready. The entire defense will move quicker to get out there. 

More than half the pitchers are DH’d for anyway. Why can’t they be on the mound 10-15 seconds after the last out? 

[Thatsnotyou]

7 hours ago, Richvee said:

5 pitches within 2 minutes from the final out of the previous frame. Six conferences, 3 with a coach. That stops the powwows at the mound after warmup pitches which this year seems to be the biggest time waster I’m seeing on the high school fields. I’m seeing less requests for time by a batter unless they’re genuinely getting frozen, and less stepping off unless F1/F2 can’t get together on signs…..Maybe I’ve just had a good schedule and getting better pace of play games. But I think there’s a trickle down effect too. They see a better pace watching MLB, a lot know when they get to college they’re not allowed the time outs, unlimited step offs…. At any rate, whatever the reason , I’ve seen better pace of play on HS this year. Limiting player conferences and a strict 2 minutes between innings would go a long way, IMO. 

Batter reaches 2nd base.

Catcher: ”Time”

No, we didn’t plan for a runner to get to 2nd base today. We should come up with some sort of signs…now. 
 

[concertman1971]

On 5/27/2025 at 8:23 AM, johnnyg08 said:

it's hard enough to get umpires to buy a new shirt

☝️🤣

[DevildogUmp]

7 hours ago, Richvee said:

5 pitches within 2 minutes from the final out of the previous frame. Six conferences, 3 with a coach. That stops the powwows at the mound after warmup pitches which this year seems to be the biggest time waster I’m seeing on the high school fields. I’m seeing less requests for time by a batter unless they’re genuinely getting frozen, and less stepping off unless F1/F2 can’t get together on signs…..Maybe I’ve just had a good schedule and getting better pace of play games. But I think there’s a trickle down effect too. They see a better pace watching MLB, a lot know when they get to college they’re not allowed the time outs, unlimited step offs…. At any rate, whatever the reason , I’ve seen better pace of play on HS this year. Limiting player conferences and a strict 2 minutes between innings would go a long way, IMO. 

While my sample set is way too small to be significant, I've only had 2 game this season go over 1:50 and both of those long games were caused by the plate umpire not controlling the game. While I'm fine with tightening up the game with rules, at the end of the day it is on the umpires to actually stay involved and enforce length of conferences, time between innings, time between pitches. For most of my association, I give you a pretty good estimate of what the game time is going to be based on who has the plate (someone who runs a tight game or the umpire who is there to politic and kiss babies).

[Richvee]

2 hours ago, DevildogUmp said:

While my sample set is way too small to be significant, I've only had 2 game this season go over 1:50 and both of those long games were caused by the plate umpire not controlling the game. While I'm fine with tightening up the game with rules, at the end of the day it is on the umpires to actually stay involved and enforce length of conferences, time between innings, time between pitches. For most of my association, I give you a pretty good estimate of what the game time is going to be based on who has the plate (someone who runs a tight game or the umpire who is there to politic and kiss babies).

I do not disagree. PUs watching  catchers chase uncaught and fouled back pitches, watching fielders run after foul balls instead of throwing a new one to the pitcher and telling the fielders to let it go, talking with coaches and not moving them along between innings….. it drives me crazy. It’s been less of a problem this year, as about 95% of my high school names have been plate assignments. 🤣🤷‍♂️

But then, there are those games that no matter what you do as PU, the games just don’t move. Consistent deep counts, insane amounts of balls fouled off, slugfests… sometimes it’s not our fault.  

 

[Thatsnotyou]

You can help eliminate dead time, but you have no other control on the length of games unless you’re stealing strikes. They pitch, they hit, they make plays (or don’t). Umpires don’t control total game length and I get really tired of umpires using that as some sort of measurement for how well they did. 

[johnnyg08]

1 hour ago, Thatsnotyou said:

You can help eliminate dead time, but you have no other control on the length of games unless you’re stealing strikes. They pitch, they hit, they make plays (or don’t). Umpires don’t control total game length and I get really tired of umpires using that as some sort of measurement for how well they did. 

In some ways they do...there are umpires out there who consistently have longer game times. What's different? How they manage the pace of the game. 

Adding just 1 minute extra to each half inning due to poor management is an additional 14 minutes. 

Adding 90 seconds extra to each half inning adds 21 minutes to your game. 

I think the math is right.  🙂

[Thatsnotyou]

I said that. Umpires can eliminate dead time. Anything else is up to the players for better or for worse. 

[The Man in Blue]

21 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

Agreed. But we also need an actual clock between innings. It’ll stop pitchers from taking forever to leave the dugout…then walking out, and it’ll ensure a catcher of some sort is always ready. The entire defense will move quicker to get out there. 

While I am always going to be on the side of riding umpires to manage this, I will absolutely agree that a visual element for EVERYBODY to see does change the culture of sloths.  Most human beings have a bad internal sense of time.

My students today were supposed to deliver a 6-minute speech for their final.  Their slides were automatically timed to advance and end at 6 minutes.  I got everything from 3 1/2 minutes to 12 minutes.  The ones who hit the mark were the ones that used a visual timer.

[SeeingEyeDog]

11 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

In some ways they do...there are umpires out there who consistently have longer game times. What's different? How they manage the pace of the game. 

Adding just 1 minute extra to each half inning due to poor management is an additional 14 minutes. 

Adding 90 seconds extra to each half inning adds 21 minutes to your game. 

I think the math is right.  🙂

I would also add to this...just general hustle from the umpires. It's contagious. We hustle, it frequently gets players hustling. Especially in a draggy game. I've heard many coaches say some form of..."Jimmy, why is the umpire beating you to (insert spot name/description on the field)?!?! Let's go!"

~Dawg 

[Thatsnotyou]

3 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

While I am always going to be on the side of riding umpires to manage this, I will absolutely agree that a visual element for EVERYBODY to see does change the culture of sloths.  Most human beings have a bad internal sense of time.

My students today were supposed to deliver a 6-minute speech for their final.  Their slides were automatically timed to advance and end at 6 minutes.  I got everything from 3 1/2 minutes to 12 minutes.  The ones who hit the mark were the ones that used a visual timer.

Yes, we need to change the culture. Right now, no one is pressed to do anything. Make it a POE with some new rules and it’ll change everyone’s behavior. You can stay on it all you want, but unless you’re a complete red ass and want to cause issues, you’re at the mercy of the slow moving pitcher between innings. 

[Velho]

1 hour ago, Thatsnotyou said:

unless you’re a complete red ass

And color perception is about contrast. If you're the only one doing it, and they get zero pressure every other game, you're branded the red ass - even if you're only pushing them mildly.

[MadMax]

6 minutes ago, Thatsnotyou said:

Make it a POE with some new rules and it’ll change everyone’s behavior.

Completely agree, but stop burdening the umpire. It has to be a collective catharsis; the clocks – any such clock, it could be a simple timing clock, the likes of which are used in basketball tournaments, etc. – could be attached to the fence, or on the scorekeeper’s table, that everyone on the field can see. The state pulls more than enough dues and fees off us, and further requires us to take tests and buy uniforms and work preseason scrimmages for (next to) free… Time to do something for us. 

[The Man in Blue]

I did not put any leg work into this, so I cannot attest to quality or what any actual research would turn up, but here is a portable set of two displays with remote for less than $500 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/GAN-XIN-Basketball-Countdown-Portable/dp/B0C77S3TLF?th=1

[The Man in Blue]

20 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I would also add to this...just general hustle from the umpires. It's contagious. We hustle, it frequently gets players hustling. Especially in a draggy game. I've heard many coaches say some form of..."Jimmy, why is the umpire beating you to (insert spot name/description on the field)?!?! Let's go!"

~Dawg 

 

I was taught to NEVER let a catcher get back to home plate before you.

EDIT TO ADD:  . . . And you should never be beating the catcher back to home plate.  Stay with him, keep him with you.  Don’t get back and then find out he went back to the pitcher’s mound.