Cobalt or Adams XV

[BLarson]

I've been umpiring youth baseball, mostly USSSA select, ages 7-14...the majority being 10-13 age groups.

When I started umpiring almost 9 years ago I didn't know anything about equipment and went to my local sporting good stores and got a Diamond ix3.   Their selection wasn't great and I needed one so it's the one I ended up with.

It's been very serviceable but during the the hot/muggy Nebraska days and nights it is not breathable at all...especially when doing 3-4 games in a day.
On the cooler/colder March/April days it's nice to wear.

I'm thinking getting the Cobalt or the Adams XV.
I went back and searched this forum for each brand but I'd like to know which one you guys recommend for breathability and ventilation.

I assume for the age groups that I do both will offer superior protection.

I'm 6 foot and 220lbs if that makes a difference.

 

 

 

[Thunderheads]

31 minutes ago, BLarson said:

I've been umpiring youth baseball, mostly USSSA select, ages 7-14...the majority being 10-13 age groups.

When I started umpiring almost 9 years ago I didn't know anything about equipment and went to my local sporting good stores and got a Diamond ix3.   Their selection wasn't great and I needed one so it's the one I ended up with.

It's been very serviceable but during the the hot/muggy Nebraska days and nights it is not breathable at all...especially when doing 3-4 games in a day.
On the cooler/colder March/April days it's nice to wear.

I'm thinking getting the Cobalt or the Adams XV.
I went back and searched this forum for each brand but I'd like to know which one you guys recommend for breathability and ventilation.

I assume for the age groups that I do both will offer superior protection.

I'm 6 foot and 220lbs if that makes a difference.

 

 

 

Did your search include 'Adams' or 'Schutt'?   If Adams, then try Schutt and see if a comparison comes up?  I'm sure one of the local gear-whores will jump on here soon @MadMax, @wolfe_man ....

[humanbackstop19]

At 5'10, I was able to take the removable lower extension off of my Cobalt and still have full coverage of my bottom ribs.  I think anyone taller than me would have to keep it on, which makes it a bit more bulky.  Still, if protection is your primary concern, the Cobalt rocks in terms of low profile, impact absorption, and heat management in warmer temps.  

[MadMax]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:44 AM, Thunderheads said:

I'm sure one of the local gear-whores will jump on here soon

😲 Hey! @wolfe_man, Jeff just called us "gear whores"?! That's insulting and outrageous!

...

...

... Because it implies that we get paid for this! Which we don't... 

On 2/3/2022 at 11:11 AM, BLarson said:

I'm thinking [of] getting the Cobalt or the Adams XV.

Lemme get this out on the table first – both of these CPs are fully capable and adept at Major-League speeds and environs. There is nothing magical about the Wilson WestVest -series units that make them more advantageous or protective than the All-Star Cobalt, the All-Star System 7, the Douglas Pro, the Schutt / Adams XV, the Riddell Power, All-American AA37, +POS Cobra, +POS ZRO-G, and even the Champion P2xx, and brand-new Champro CP-AMT (which is a direct WV Gold knock-off).

Hell, I'll even throw in the Force3 UnEqual, which itself is a wholly unique animal, and is often misunderstood when we're talking "Pro -level gear". 

For the sake of the forthcoming explanation (purchasing advice), we can cross the pre-22 Wilson WV Gold and Platinum off the list, the Riddell, and the All-American... since you can't buy them anyway. Once I explain the fundamental difference amongst these units, especially how the Cobalt, Adams XV, and Force3 UnEqual behave, you're not going to see any of the other CPs in the same light.

The difference is in the foam padding. Everybody other than All-Star, Schutt-Adams, Force3, +POS, and Champion is using varying degrees of what amounts to be open-cell upholstery foam as padding in their vests. The stuff has no ventilating properties (in fact, it is insulating), and requires volume (thickness) to be protective and energy-absorbing. So that increases weight and bulk. Only now, in 2022 (some 25 years after they introduced the damned thing!), is Wilson finally addressing the foam in the WV Gold and now producing it in MemoryFoam, which is technically a viscoelastic open-cell foam, but behaves thermodynamically so as to control resilience rate and conform better to contours and shapes without having to increase volume. 

If you've read any of my other (mega-)posts, I've used a term called "laminated foam", which is a sandwich of several types of foams so as to benefit from their individual properties. +POS does this, as does Force3 (to a certain extent), except here Force3 is infusing a layer of Kevlar. Yes, just like on bulletproof (more like, bullet-catching) vests. Champion uses a foam that is more akin to closed-cell foam, acting as the meat of a laminate sandwich – which is why they can pull off the almost-ridiculously low profile silhouette they can achieve. 

That leaves us with All-Star and Schutt-Adams, which are using EVA-TPU foams as the basis of their laminates. In the case of Schutt-Adams, Schutt was the first to employ a trademarked version of this EVA-TPU foam called D3O, having placed it in their football helmets because of its dynamic resistance and hydrophobic properties. Relevant to you, the hydrophobic properties means that it wicks and transfers moisture, which would otherwise be trapped by common foams weighing it down, near instantly. In order to aid in that moisture dissipation, the foam best functions with (rather) large cylindrical holes in it, further reducing weight and promoting ventilation. This foam was then installed in specific locations on its line of football shoulder pads. As such, it went into its baseball chest protectors and helmets just as easily. Because Schutt is endeavoring to optimize its football presence, they had to have an unbranded variant of D3O produced, and supplied to its Adams subsidiary, which has taken over the baseball aspect of Schutt's business, at least as far as umpires are concerned. 

All-Star has kept abreast of these developments, too, and has been using laminate foams in its entire family of catcher's shinguards, chest protectors, and HSMs. They, too, produced their own variant of holed EVA-TPU foam, and its found its way into shinguards and chest protectors. To improve contact and fit on the Cobalt, All-Star not only structured their foam pads in an egg-carton manner, but placed them tactically within the carapace as pods, further promoting airflow. Additionally, borrowing a page out of +POS's playbook, they used HDPE plastic as the carapace plates instead of ABS, significantly reducing overall weight without compromising integrity. 

Both units offer similar accessories and features: they both have lower abdominal extensions, both have flex harnesses, both use plastic side-release buckles for fasteners (instead of those wretched metal T-hooks, which corrode and cut into your shirt when impacted), and both have the ability to separate the carapace from the pads so as to wash the pads. 

Even the much-anticipated Wilson Gold II can't boast this ease of use! Not only will the memory foam version be heavier (because of the use of memory foam), but in both the MemFoam and AMT models, the foam jacket is one piece. This means that the foam vest makes full contact to you, and acts as the connective "tissue" between the carapace plates, which attach to it via Velcro tabs (which are no longer patented). What a hassle! Not easy to adjust, modify, and has the all the comfort of a hot, wet teddy bear embracing you. 

So what it comes down to, between the All-Star Cobalt and the Adams XV is cost, not capability. I've worn both, loved both. The Cobalt is substantially more of an investment, while the XV just boggles the mind as to how or why it is so affordable. Indeed, I think it's so "out there", some umpires cannot believe that it is as capable as it is. And, to that point, I (continue to) wear it every game I can to prove it, and I'm doing 150+ plate games per year, with more than a few seeing speeds over 90 mph and temperatures routinely over 90º.

[wolfe_man]

Oh no, we've been called out! LOL

After Max's post, I'm not sure how much I can add as far as technical specifications; however, I can give you my personal opinion.

I'm 5'11, 220. I wear 38 pants (could probably go 36 but I like a bit of extra room due to big thighs) and a 46R jacket.  This is merely so you can get an idea of how these CP's may fit you as it seems we are similar in size. 

Side thought, I wish all of the umpire gear websites made people list their size when doing reviews, it would be SO helpful if they did.  For example, one guy says it's too big on him (well, he's 5'6" and 150 lbs soaking wet, so duh) and another says it makes him look like a linebacker (but he's already 6'2 240). 

Back on point, both CP's have a very devoted following. Some tested and were involved with the implementation of the Cobalt.  It is my humble thought that they have a vested interest in making it the most popular CP out there today.  Some may seem offended if one suggests it isn't to their liking.  I'll let their posts tell you of all the good points.  But for me personally, this CP is not the right fit.  The shoulders kept messing with me no matter how much I played with them, so I sold it and stuck with my Gold L/XL (minus wings). 

The Adams HDX is a superb chest protector for guys our size. Nice wide chest plate, very low profile, air-cooled padding (but safe!) and it just looks cool too.  Toss the extension and the arm guards (or sell them to another umpire) and you have a very good CP for a very fair price!  You will not find a more cost-effective or cooler (at any price) CP to wear in hot weather out there.  The air-holes make every breeze feel like you have AC built in!

The one drawback about the Adams is the cheap Velcro (my opinion) holding the plates on the padding jacket.  To be fair, Douglas uses this method too which is one of the only reasons I keep selling the black Douglas CP's I find from time-to-time.  I know it's nit-picky, but I can't stand the sloppiness (I'm supposedly borderline OCD, neat-freak).

For me, I really like the Wilson Gold and I got a Force3 V3 chest protector last year that I really like and use as my main CP now.  However, the F3 is $279, a Gold is $180-230 now depending on newer model vs. existing while an Adams is under $100 at most retailers (if you can find it in stock, which should tell you something).

If money is not object, maybe get one of each through Ump-Attire.com and use the free returns to return the one you don't like... or join Max and I and many others in being gear whores and just keep them all!  Please make sure to tell Jim I sent you if you go to Ump-Attire.com so I can get my commission (I'm kidding, I can only wish).

Best of luck and let us know what you decide is best for you!

[GreyhoundAggie]

I just bought the Cobalt this year. Haven't had a chance to test it but I will report back once I have some games under my belt this year. First scrimmage Saturday.

I'm really hoping its as good as I hope it to be. I'm coming from a WV Platinum I've worn for 12 years so it feels night and day different.

 

[BLarson]

Thanks...pretty much what I expected to hear from everyone.
I might get both from Ump-Attire and try them to see which one I like best.

 

[Rock Bottom]

2 hours ago, BLarson said:

Thanks...pretty much what I expected to hear from everyone.
I might get both from Ump-Attire and try them to see which one I like best.

 

If you (or anyone) can't find an Adams let me know - I have one that's in great shape, but I moved to the All-Start System7 (CPU4000), the predecessor to the Cobalt, and love it - can't see going back to my Adams, but just haven't had the time to put it up for sale yet.  I love the AS S7 so much I bought a second one as my backup when it was on sale after the Cobalt came out.

[kylejt]

21 minutes ago, Rock Bottom said:

If you can't find an Adams let me know - I have one that's in great shape, but I moved to the All-Start System7 (CPU4000), the predecessor to the Cobalt, and love it - can't see going back to my Adams, but just haven't had the time to add put it up for sale yet.  I love the AS S7 so much I bought a second one as my backup when it was on sale after the Cobalt came out.

I still have my System 7, in addition to the Cobalt. I think the S7 is a bit more protective, especially at the collar bone. The Cobalt is a bit slimmer and lighter on me. It's been a game day decision on what I use. I do like having extra pads on the S7, in case I need to do two plates in a day. 

[boyinr]

I bought an Adams at the end of last season. Got it in time for 3 games or so. I changed the harness to an F3. Once I got it adjusted I really liked it.  Almost forgot it was there. It’s going in the rotation this Spring   

 I was on the fence with the same choice as you are. The decider for me was, when I bought it, the Cobolt was not in stock. I don’t think you can go wrong with either choice. 

[umpstu]

I went from some +POS foam chest protector to a West Vest, to a System 7, to a Force 3, to an All Star Cobalt and now back to a System 7.  Felt good with West Vest, Force 3 and System 7.  Never felt right wearing the Cobalt.

Luckily I was able to get my money back when I sold my Cobalt.  Did ok money wise with my first System 7.

Was able to find a new System 7 for $95 delivered on Sideline swap.  Really like it.  Put an UmpLife harness on it and it is amazing now.

[johnnyg08]

On 2/3/2022 at 2:25 PM, humanbackstop19 said:

At 5'10, I was able to take the removable lower extension off of my Cobalt and still have full coverage of my bottom ribs.  I think anyone taller than me would have to keep it on, which makes it a bit more bulky.  Still, if protection is your primary concern, the Cobalt rocks in terms of low profile, impact absorption, and heat management in warmer temps.  

I'm about the same height and I took the bottom piece off immediately. No need for me. Complete coverage too. 

[BLarson]

I ordered both from Ump-attire...should arrive tomorrow.
I evaluate them both and send one back next week.

[boyinr]

3 hours ago, BLarson said:

I ordered both from Ump-attire...should arrive tomorrow.
I evaluate them both and send one back next week.

IMO The harness on the Adams/Shutt needs to upgraded to a F3 or UmpLife to be properly evaluated.  I don’t think you can go wrong either way. 

[BT_Blue]

My vote is for the Cobalt.

[BLarson]

I got both of them...adjusted them and tried them on and both fit well.

I do have 1 question...the side straps on the Adams didn't have any triloc/ladderloc to hold the strap in place after I adjusted them...they freely move.
I was able to pull them tight and get them clicked into place but it certainly wouldn't hold up during use.
I found another thread that I can pick them up separately and some people had Shutt send them ones.  I posed a question to Shutt's online "contact us" page on Friday morning but hadn't heard anything back. 

 

[MadMax]

35 minutes ago, BLarson said:

I found another thread that I can pick them up separately and some people had Shutt send them ones.

In my capacity / role, I just order and stock tri-glides / ladderlocs in bulk. I am constantly recycling them, since Ray's new UmpLife Rayflex-II harness now has the ladderlocs built into the harness itself. So, when a fellow umpire has me refit their CP with the new harness, I yank all the ladderlocs off the existing yoke-harness things before I (end up) pitching it into the garbage. 

The upgraded Adams O-flex harness is a big improvement over their old yoke, but it is want for ladderlocs, you are right. Otherwise, what do you think of the two CPs so far?

[boyinr]

On 2/4/2022 at 6:26 PM, boyinr said:

I bought an Adams at the end of last season. Got it in time for 3 games or so. I changed the harness to an F3. Once I got it adjusted I really liked it.  Almost forgot it was there. It’s going in the rotation this Spring   

 I was on the fence with the same choice as you are. The decider for me was, when I bought it, the Cobolt was not in stock. I don’t think you can go wrong with either choice. 

The more I wear this the more I like it.  So much so, I gave my S7 to a guy that was wearing a Diamond X3i. This is a true value.  

[kylejt]

On 2/3/2022 at 12:25 PM, humanbackstop19 said:

At 5'10, I was able to take the removable lower extension off of my Cobalt and still have full coverage of my bottom ribs.  I think anyone taller than me would have to keep it on, which makes it a bit more bulky.  Still, if protection is your primary concern, the Cobalt rocks in terms of low profile, impact absorption, and heat management in warmer temps.  

Just an FYI. I'm 6'1", and took the "wings" off my Cobalt, and placed them on the bottom to just cover my last ribs. Worked out great, so didn't need the lower extension. 

[BLarson]

I decided on the Cobalt.   I really liked both but in the end after adjusting them and trying them on several times, I thought the Cobalt fit me and felt better.

Both are a huge upgrade to what I was using.

Thanks to everyone on chimed in...much appreciated.

I just picked up a scrimmage Thursday night for a 12U team so I'll get to test it out then.

[Rock Bottom]

14 hours ago, boyinr said:

The more I wear this the more I like it.  So much so, I gave my S7 to a guy that was wearing a Diamond X3i. This is a true value.  

Please make sure you adjust the padding so your collarbone is protected! A took a shot to there using the Schutt which made me switch to the S7. Still like the Schutt, but you need to make sure you adjust it correctly. (Personally I like the S7 much better.)

[boyinr]

8 hours ago, Rock Bottom said:

Please make sure you adjust the padding so your collarbone is protected! A took a shot to there using the Schutt which made me switch to the S7. Still like the Schutt, but you need to make sure you adjust it correctly. (Personally I like the S7 much better.)

Yes, I wear all of mine like a Marine Corps hair cut "high and tight".  Yes, I agree that you need to move the padding around a bit but, unlike some others it is moveable.  Once I get it how I like it, I may have the shoulder padding sewn on to the chest padding.  The velco is kind of weak.      

[MadMax]

3 hours ago, boyinr said:

Once I get it how I like it, I may have the shoulder padding sewn on to the chest padding.  The velco is kind of weak. 

Contact Cement, applied now, at this point, makes all the difference. 

Prior to spending the effort and attention to placing the padded vest in the desired location within the carapace, pull out the hook strips (the brush-y half of Velcro) and apply Contact Cement to the carapace and to the backside of the hook strips. Allow to cure for a few minutes (3-5?), then press the hook strips back into the carapace. 

You have solved “the problem” for Schutt-Adams. 

Wait about an hour for the cement to fully bond and cure, and those strips ain’t gonna come out. Then, you can place the padding vest into the carapace much more effectively.

[BobUmp]

I've got both - Have had the XV for a few years now and the Cobalt I bought right before COVID, so got a full season in last year. I am also basically the same size as you : 6 ft 3 in and 230 lbs..

BOTH protect well - BOTH cover the gaps and our full ribs/torso with the extensions (once adjusted properly)

BOTH wick heat/sweat away really well - you can feel the difference from other CPs such as Wilson Platinum, Champions, +POS

The Cobalt cost significantly more, BUT I barely had to adjust the stock set up from right out of the box - simple adjustments, I use all the extensions, and it stays in place, has a noticeable cooling channel in the chest area, and protects the chest, ribs, clavicles and shoulders nicely for us taller/bigger guys.

The XV costs significantly less, BUT I had to adjust and tinker a lot to get it perfect. I have an older Schutt version that I put a custom harness on and have all of the MAX alterations (chicago screws and heat bending). I also have an Adams XV version that I also wound up changing the harness (although the Adams harness was workable, I preferred a different harness) and making some modifications to, but not as radical as the original - still heat worked it but did not need to change the shoulder caps. For both I needed to work on the velcro because I like washing the pads in the washing machine often - nothing like donning a clean nice smelling CP...

If pushed, I would say the XV is slightly lighter, slightly more low profile under shirts, and slightly cooler than the Cobalt, but not by much.

BOTH clean in the washing machine easily (then air dry) - I will wash them a few times a week in the summer if I am busting out games.

You cannot go wrong either way - if you have the funds, the Cobalt is easier to get dialed in right out of the box, while the XV is gentle on the wallet and is slightly lower profile and cooler.

[BLarson]

Kept the Cobalt, returned the Adams.
Haven't got to use it yet...have a scrimmage scheduled for Thursday, but high temp will be about 53...so no heat test yet