Spotting a shaved bat

[Sodapop]

Someone in my league who I suspect of possible bat shaving has this bat.  Took these pics yesterday.  WE DO play on blacktop sometimes, so the wear and tear near the endcap COULD be from that...but what do you guys think?

[SeeingEyeDog]

How old are these players and what rule set are you using, please?

~Dawg

[SH0102]

Looks like a softball bat; and im no expert in shaving bats, but don’t most people shave the handle, not the barrel?

Thought the point was to make it lighter at the handle for faster whip/speed ? Not reduce the mass of the barrel…

[Rich Ives]

4 hours ago, SH0102 said:

Looks like a softball bat; and im no expert in shaving bats, but don’t most people shave the handle, not the barrel?

Thought the point was to make it lighter at the handle for faster whip/speed ? Not reduce the mass of the barrel…

Thin the barrel to get more trampoline effect.

[SH0102]

5 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Thin the barrel to get more trampoline effect.

Interesting…force = mass x acceleration

decrease mass of barrel seems counter-intuitive, but guess that’s why I never did it, id Do it Wrong!

[Rich Ives]

54 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

Interesting…force = mass x acceleration

decrease mass of barrel seems counter-intuitive, but guess that’s why I never did it, id Do it Wrong!

When the ball collides with the bat both the ball and the bat collapse and "store" energy then return it. That's why both bats and balls have to meet standards that keep them below certain levels. 

[humanbackstop19]

There was a company in Arizona about a decade ago that you could send a bat to.  They would pop the end cap and shave the inside of the barrel, decreasing the weight by as much as an ounce, which dramatically increased the trampoline effect, and thus performance, of the bat.  I think they got shut down though.  Those guys were good from what I heard, little to no evidence of tampering.  

[HokieUmp]

Throw at his head, repeatedly, just to be on the safe side.

 

 

........ Yes, even if it's slowpitch.

[Replacematt]

19 hours ago, SH0102 said:

Interesting…force = mass x acceleration

decrease mass of barrel seems counter-intuitive, but guess that’s why I never did it, id Do it Wrong!

You're applying the equation backwards.

Force is a constant in this case--it's generated by the batter. The mass of the bat does not affect how much force the batter generates, but how fast the bat accelerates. Then, as others have said, there is the issue of elasticity and restitution, which is the larger component of how this increases ball speed.

[SeeingEyeDog]

10 hours ago, humanbackstop19 said:

There was a company in Arizona about a decade ago that you could send a bat to.  They would pop the end cap and shave the inside of the barrel, decreasing the weight by as much as an ounce, which dramatically increased the trampoline effect, and thus performance, of the bat.  I think they got shut down though.  Those guys were good from what I heard, little to no evidence of tampering.  

Serious question...by what authority were they "shut down"?

Hi...I don't play organized baseball of any kind but, I'd like to pay for you to shave my bat down because I like hitting bottle caps over my roof and then running around and catching them on the other side of my house. I think one of your shaved down bats would be a great tool for this!

~Dawg

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Serious question...by what authority were they "shut down"?

I can't say it actually happened, however, this would be the statutory authority: https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1701-trademark-counterfeiting-introduction

[SH0102]

11 hours ago, Matt said:

You're applying the equation backwards.

Force is a constant in this case--it's generated by the batter. The mass of the bat does not affect how much force the batter generates, but how fast the bat accelerates. Then, as others have said, there is the issue of elasticity and restitution, which is the larger component of how this increases ball speed.

It’s not backwards…by shaving the bat, you are decreasing the mass.  The only way the force increases is if the acceleration gained is larger than the decrease in mass.

The elasticity part however makes sense in terms of how it creates a much increased advantage

[Replacematt]

29 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

It’s not backwards…by shaving the bat, you are decreasing the mass.  The only way the force increases is if the acceleration gained is larger than the decrease in mass.

The elasticity part however makes sense in terms of how it creates a much increased advantage

There is no force increase at the origin. It's defined by whatever the batter puts out. The mass of the bat decreases proportionally to its acceleration. 

The force imparted on the ball is reduced linearly by reduction in bat mass, but increases exponentially by increasing bat velocity. Thus, more force at that point.

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, SH0102 said:

It’s not backwards…by shaving the bat, you are decreasing the mass.  The only way the force increases is if the acceleration gained is larger than the decrease in mass.

The elasticity part however makes sense in terms of how it creates a much increased advantage

And that almost always happens -- since acceleration is thew first derivative of velocity, you the force will grow by the velocity squared and decrease by the mass (not squared) -- so getting more velocity on the bat gives you more force on the ball than the loss of the mass decreases the force.

 

(I'm sure there's a better explanation than that -- it's why I'm not a teacher)

[noumpere]

Just now, noumpere said:

And that almost always happens -- since acceleration is thew first derivative of velocity, you the force will grow by the velocity squared and decrease by the mass (not squared) -- so getting more velocity on the bat gives you more force on the ball than the loss of the mass decreases the force.

 

(I'm sure there's a better explanation than that -- it's why I'm not a teacher)

edit:  Or, what Matt says

[maven]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:29 PM, SH0102 said:

Interesting…force = mass x acceleration

What are we, 6U? 

Do adult physics:  ℱ = dp/dt.

Plus, Matt's right.

Also, remember that if the bat moves fast enough, its mass will actually increase.

[beerguy55]

Not sure about a shaved bat...but here's a bearded one.

[BLWizzRanger]

Let it be known, I did not derail or hijack this thread.  (I do have a true live 'bat' story that did happen in one of my last games though. But, I will save it for another day.)

[kylehutson]

7 hours ago, maven said:

Also, remember that if the bat moves fast enough, its mass will actually increase.

Yes, but if we see bats that are a significant portion of the speed of light, we have a lot more issues to deal with than whether or not that bat is shaved.

[humanbackstop19]

Here is a link to one of the places....worth the read.  As far as being shut down, it appears they're still up and running.

 

https://www.bigdawgbatrolling.com/bat-shaving.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4eaJBhDMARIsANhrQAByVIsR2Z9nt8WewMnbQBbOz4zTf5Xy908TREuVHhl-gJquVYeQKegaAv6IEALw_wcB

[MadMax]

On 9/7/2021 at 11:27 AM, humanbackstop19 said:

I think they got shut down though.  Those guys were good from what I heard, little to no evidence of tampering.

 

On 9/7/2021 at 9:30 PM, SeeingEyeDog said:

Serious question...by what authority were they "shut down"?

Hi...I don't play organized baseball of any kind but, I'd like to pay for you to shave my bat down because I like hitting bottle caps over my roof and then running around and catching them on the other side of my house.

The only way they could be legally shut down by a third party would be for misrepresenting any certifications or trademarks the original bat manufacturers had on the bats, the details of which are in that link @Matt posted. 

Otherwise, Big Dawg Bat Rolling states rather blatantly that: 

• Use of a rolled (shaved) bat is not legal in league play
• The rolling / shaving of a bat voids the manufacturer’s warranty (and liability) for that bat
• The bat is much more prone to cracking or breaking in cold temperatures

All the bat is really good for, legally, is for home run derbys and non-sanctioned “pickup” games. But, no one has stepped in to “shut them down”.