red base running flags

[mac266]

New umpire here, divisions from ages 8-18 but not affiliated with our high school association.

I've been using ump-attire.com to get my equipment, and they are selling red "base runner violation flags."  I've been a baseball fan my entire life and have never HEARD of these things.  Our training hasn't covered them.  The description really doesn't help me out, either.  If these are for obstruction or interference, we have mechanics to call that without using a red flag.  As old as baseball is, I would think throwing a red flag would confuse a lot of people -- coaches, players, and spectators.  Heck, even my partner!

At least one of the online reviews mentions using them in Little League.  My own kid played LL through last year and I never saw such a thing there, either.

What are they for, and who uses them?  How and when?

[maven]

I think it's for runners who leave early at levels where stealing is disallowed.

This should be in the "Rules" or, better, "LL" forum.

[Jimurray]

21 minutes ago, mac266 said:

New umpire here, divisions from ages 8-18 but not affiliated with our high school association.

I've been using ump-attire.com to get my equipment, and they are selling red "base runner violation flags."  I've been a baseball fan my entire life and have never HEARD of these things.  Our training hasn't covered them.  The description really doesn't help me out, either.  If these are for obstruction or interference, we have mechanics to call that without using a red flag.  As old as baseball is, I would think throwing a red flag would confuse a lot of people -- coaches, players, and spectators.  Heck, even my partner!

At least one of the online reviews mentions using them in Little League.  My own kid played LL through last year and I never saw such a thing there, either.

What are they for, and who uses them?  How and when?

If you read the reviews at least 4 umps use them for Little League runner leaving early violations. I think most other codes with closed base divisions call an out right away but LL does not. It's penalized after the play by placing runners or poofing one. There is no out declared. Most of us just point and/or drop our hat.

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

 Most of us just point and/or drop our hat.

Please don't just point.  Knowing there;s a violation affects how the runners are coached.

[Senor Azul]

2019 LL RIM rule 7.13 Examples NOTE 1: When an umpire detects a base runner leaving the base too soon, that umpire shall drop a signal flag or handkerchief immediately to indicate the violation.

INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS:

The note indicates “drop a signal flag” to indicate the violation. This shall be done immediately. Do not trust this to memory. It’s tough to sell that a runner left early, if there was no visible verification.

[beerguy55]

3 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I think most other codes with closed base divisions call an out right away but LL does not.

Yeah, even LL softball calls the runner out, I assume to align with all other softball codes.  (no pitch, immediate dead ball, runner out)

[mac266]

I don't work with LL but may do it next year. 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[stevis]

51 minutes ago, mac266 said:

I don't work with LL but may do it next year. 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

LL guy here.  Yeah, it's the goofiest rule in organized baseball, but it's kind of fun if you embrace it.  It's a compromise between calling an out for a small mistake (like a half-second early jump) and making sure to neutralize the advantage and discourage blatant rulebreaking.

There's nothing magic about the red flag other than high visibility.  One of my umps uses a purple one; I've used an orange towel at times. 

Tear up an old shirt if you want and use that. I order red shop towels and hand them out to our junior umpires.  In either case, use some rocks and a rubber band if you want to wait it down.  Definitely don't pay $6 for a formal flag.  I have two, but only because inherited them from a retiring umpire.

But don't throw a hat.  You just look like a doofus who doesn't know how to size his hat.

[ousafe]

For LL umps only: Often an antsy runner leaves early on a non-action pitch (e.g. looking strike).  Still throw the flag though,  so the base coach can see that you are paying attention and they can coach their runner accordingly.

[Rich Ives]

14 minutes ago, stevis said:

LL guy here.  Yeah, it's the goofiest rule in organized baseball,

Not really.  It's never an out in "real" baseball so it makes sense to not have it be an out. But you do need something to keep them in check.

If it gets blatant you can toss the coach for deliberate rule breaking. 

 

[The Man in Blue]

I am ordering some and am going to throw them for coaching violations.  “Coach, that’s 5-yards.  You need to move back.  Yes, yes, if you keep it up you will have eventually worked your way off the field.”  

[Aging_Arbiter]

and I have found it a good practice to toss the flag towards the base left early.  Removes any doubt when continuing action (that requires attention) happens.  The coach sees the flag closer to the base, it reinforces that you were watching.