Appeal After Apparent Game Winning HR

[Sut'n Blue]

Scenario:

OBR, bottom ninth, tie score. Batter hits one over the center field fence into the swamp where the ball will never be seen again. BR misses first on his way around the bases and the defense wants to appeal. How can this be properly appealed?

[Lou B]

The defense stays on the field and the catcher asks the umpire to throw a ball to the pitcher and put the ball back into play.  At that point an Appeal of the missed base can be made.

[beerguy55]

33 minutes ago, Sut'n Blue said:

Scenario:

OBR, bottom ninth, tie score. Batter hits one over the center field fence into the swamp where the ball will never be seen again. BR misses first on his way around the bases and the defense wants to appeal. How can this be properly appealed?

Provided umpire is still there, and infielders haven't left fair territory, tell the umpire your intent, ask for ball - he will make it "live" and an appeal can be made.

[Sut'n Blue]

 

For the sake of clarity, I'm assuming the pitcher has to be on the rubber and the catcher in the box before the umpire can put the ball in play. Yes?

[yawetag]

I don't see why it matters. Just give the ball to someone, call "Play," and wait for the madhouse to begin.

[umpstu]

One time I was umpiring a game in a small farming community which had an FFA organization.   The school had a pig exhibit beyond the right center field fence area and a batter hit a scorching line drive to the fence in that exact area.  As the fielders converged upon the baseball a sow, who had birthed a littler of piglets, came crashing through the fence and ate the ball.  The players were okay and my partner and I got together to see how to handle this situation.  We finally ruled an inside the pork home run.

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Provided umpire is still there, 

Not supposed to leave until after the B-R touches HP.

[noumpere]

57 minutes ago, umpstu said:

One time I was umpiring a game in a small farming community which had an FFA organization.   The school had a pig exhibit beyond the right center field fence area and a batter hit a scorching line drive to the fence in that exact area.  As the fielders converged upon the baseball a sow, who had birthed a littler of piglets, came crashing through the fence and ate the ball.  The players were okay and my partner and I got together to see how to handle this situation.  We finally ruled an inside the pork home run.

I had a similar game.  I'll spare the details, but we went to extra innings and played until the cows came home.

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

Not supposed to leave until after the B-R touches HP.

And? 

If they said anything about the batter missing first base before he touches home then the b/r would just correct his error.   The ump isn't going to make the ball live until after the b/r completes his trip around the bases either.  So, it goes without saying the ump will be there until the b/r touches the plate...and I would argue it could be protestable if he did not (though the practical implications would be another matter).

It's moot.  The ump leaves immediately after home plate is touched/passed...the team has seconds to appeal.  If the ump leaves the playing field (ie. reaches DBT) before the appeal is made the game is over.  If there are no infielders left in fair territory before the appeal is made, the game is over.  And they have to accomplish this without tipping off to the other team what's happening before B/R crosses home.

 

[noumpere]

6 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

And? 

If they said anything about the batter missing first base before he touches home then the b/r would just correct his error.  

 

Once BR touches second, he can't (legally) correct his error.

[beerguy55]

14 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Once BR touches second, he can't (legally) correct his error.

In OBR?   

FED opens up the whole other ability to simply verbally appeal, as soon as BR passes second.

[Senor Azul]

Mr. Sut’n Blue, you might find this helpful. I posted the following on July 30, 2019, in Ask the Umpire forum about appeals taking place after the half-inning or when the game is over—

From the 2016 BRD (section 16, p. 29-30):

Play 24-16:  R1, 2 outs. B1 hits for extra bases but is thrown out at third to end the half-inning. The defensive players all rush off the field except for the catcher, who is in foul territory. He turns to the plate umpire and says:  “I appeal that R1 missed the plate.” Ruling:  At all levels, the appeal is legal.

Note (from Carl Childress):  An umpire applying the rule literally would dismiss the appeal. But the catcher is still in his position, and he is supposed to be in foul territory. Further, umpires often have a problem getting a fresh ball alive. BRD recommends:  When an appeal occurs at the end of a game or an inning, the ball is alive as soon as the player appealing has a game ball.

[noumpere]

42 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

In OBR?   

FED opens up the whole other ability to simply verbally appeal, as soon as BR passes second.

Yes, in OBR (and in FED and in NCAA).

[The Man in Blue]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

In OBR?   

FED opens up the whole other ability to simply verbally appeal, as soon as BR passes second.

I was going to point out that you will want to be familiar with the appeal process for the code you are working.  Some require live ball appeals, some do not.  

Softball, 18u State Tournament.  Pool play was winding down and we had a great game.  The home team was down by 1-run in the bottom of the 7th.  A batter crushes a 3-run shot to win the game.  The batter comes rushing home to celebrate with her teammates and I watch her step around home plate — not even close.  As the home team starts to clear away from the plate with their celebration, the catcher looks at me.  I smiled and waited.  After a moment the catcher says, “Blue?  I know it doesn’t matter, but the batter didn’t touch home plate.”

”You saw that too?” I asked.  She nodded.  I nodded and said “Good job.”  Then I pointed at the plate and signaled “out”.

I grabbed my partner and explained it to him and said “We need to make sure the coaches and the scorekeepers know this was a 3-2 final and not a 4-2 final, just in case runs come into play for any tiebreakers.”  No issues explaining it to anybody.  No ball put back into play because that code allowed it.  Otherwise, the catcher would have needed to shepherd her teammates back onto the field to make the appeal.  

 

[Biscuit]

30 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

I was going to point out that you will want to be familiar with the appeal process for the code you are working.  Some require live ball appeals, some do not.  

Softball, 18u State Tournament.  Pool play was winding down and we had a great game.  The home team was down by 1-run in the bottom of the 7th.  A batter crushes a 3-run shot to win the game.  The batter comes rushing home to celebrate with her teammates and I watch her step around home plate — not even close.  As the home team starts to clear away from the plate with their celebration, the catcher looks at me.  I smiled and waited.  After a moment the catcher says, “Blue?  I know it doesn’t matter, but the batter didn’t touch home plate.”

”You saw that too?” I asked.  She nodded.  I nodded and said “Good job.”  Then I pointed at the plate and signaled “out”.

I grabbed my partner and explained it to him and said “We need to make sure the coaches and the scorekeepers know this was a 3-2 final and not a 4-2 final, just in case runs come into play for any tiebreakers.”  No issues explaining it to anybody.  No ball put back into play because that code allowed it.  Otherwise, the catcher would have needed to shepherd her teammates back onto the field to make the appeal.  

 

If that's exactly how it went down that doesn't sound like an appeal to me (at least, not I baseball.)

[Rich Ives]

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

And? 

If they said anything about the batter missing first base before he touches home then the b/r would just correct his error.   The ump isn't going to make the ball live until after the b/r completes his trip around the bases either.  So, it goes without saying the ump will be there until the b/r touches the plate...and I would argue it could be protestable if he did not (though the practical implications would be another matter).

It's moot.  The ump leaves immediately after home plate is touched/passed...the team has seconds to appeal.  If the ump leaves the playing field (ie. reaches DBT) before the appeal is made the game is over.  If there are no infielders left in fair territory before the appeal is made, the game is over.  And they have to accomplish this without tipping off to the other team what's happening before B/R crosses home.

 

Can't correct the error after touching the next base (after in OBR - when in FED) the ball is dead.  

You can notify the umpire of your intent to appeal at any time - you don't have to wait until the runner touches home.

[The Man in Blue]

18 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

If that's exactly how it went down that doesn't sound like an appeal to me (at least, not I baseball.)

That’s why I said “Know your codes.”

In NFHS baseball that would be an appropriate appeal.  In my case, it was USA Softball (and still correct).

 

[beerguy55]

16 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Can't correct the error after touching the next base (after in OBR - when in FED) the ball is dead.  

You can notify the umpire of your intent to appeal at any time - you don't have to wait until the runner touches home.

Yes, and if you notify the ump before the base runner touches second base you risk them hearing and correcting the error.  The original point I was making is you have to notify the ump of the appeal before the ump leaves the field...you can't wait until he's in the parking lot putting his stuff in this car.  You can't even wait until he's three steps into DBT.  That's all.  You've made the statement more than it needed to be.

 

16 hours ago, Biscuit said:

If that's exactly how it went down that doesn't sound like an appeal to me (at least, not I baseball.)

This is absolutely an appeal in any code that allows verbal appeals....there is no requirement to formally say exactly "Mr. Umpire, I want to appeal that the runner missed home plate."  Any verbal statement, especially one made directly to the umpire, that reasonably sounds like the defense has acknowledged a base running error should qualify.

[Replacematt]

16 hours ago, Biscuit said:

If that's exactly how it went down that doesn't sound like an appeal to me (at least, not I baseball.)

This is most certainly a valid dead-ball appeal.

[yawetag]

The only thing I would ask before ruling on it is "Are you appealing that the runner missed the base?"

[Biscuit]

5 hours ago, Matt said:

This is most certainly a valid dead-ball appeal.

Not even. Her acknowledging that the runner missed the base is not an appeal attempt. At least, its not a clear attempt.

[beerguy55]

15 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

Not even. Her acknowledging that the runner missed the base is not an appeal attempt. At least, its not a clear attempt.

Only if you're being (un)intentionally obtuse.  "I know it doesn't matter, but the batter didn't touch home plate" can't be much clearer without explicitly using the word "appeal"

[Replacematt]

18 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

Not even. Her acknowledging that the runner missed the base is not an appeal attempt. At least, its not a clear attempt.

What is it? Small talk?

[Biscuit]

3 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Only if you're being (un)intentionally obtuse.  "I know it doesn't matter, but the batter didn't touch home plate" can't be much clearer without explicitly using the word "appeal"

If I know the player knows what an appeal is, sure. That alone isn't enough to let me know that they know though, and if they don't know it exists, it was not an intentional appeal.

[noumpere]

1 minute ago, Biscuit said:

If I know the player knows what an appeal is, sure. That alone isn't enough to let me know that they know though, and if they don't know it exists, it was not an intentional appeal.

Suppose the ball had been thrown home in a desperate attempt to get the runner (ignore the swamp part of the OP) and the catcher had made the same statement while touching the plate.  You'd really deny that?

If so, you need more experience. Both are clearly valid appeals.

[Biscuit]

6 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Suppose the ball had been thrown home in a desperate attempt to get the runner (ignore the swamp part of the OP) and the catcher had made the same statement while touching the plate.  You'd really deny that?

If so, you need more experience. Both are clearly valid appeals.

I somehow missed the part where the player initiated the conversation... I was thinking it happened something like the catcher looked at the miss, then at @The Man in Blue, and then he said "you saw that too?" I should've checked that before responding to @beerguy55, as he quoted the part of the conversation I missed. Then your comment about the play at the plate, which, with what I had in mind I absolutely would not uphold, but with the full conversation I would, made me check and realize my error. My apologies to all three of you for my mistake reading the thread.