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RC2004

Another Close one!! Advice needed!!

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Was working 11u travel ball. I knew it would be a rough game already when I first walked out and before I even called a plate meeting the VT assistant coach (Did not know he was the assistant at the time) came out and asked me “where is your partner at?” I said “they HT only booked one guy .” His response “well you should have two guys.” I said “there is no other partner, play ball”. So the game went on and his pitcher started to struggle. They started asking where the pitch was missing. I was nice and told them where and was and that the last one was close. Next batter 1-2 count borderline pitch and I ball it. Just moans and groans on that pitch. Next pitch bases clearing Triple. Catcher takes the bat and chucks it at the on deck circle as I am brushing off the plate. After I finish I told him “ you’re lucky no one was over there or you would have already been gone. Next time you throw anything over there your done. He said ok and the game went on. After about the 4th inning the balls started to get real sand paper like and the HT was out of balls. The AC for the VT was complaining about the balls now. ( still did not know he was the AC, there were 7 coaches on the bench.) nothing major I let it go. The next pitch comes and I ball it and the AC goes “ you do know it is where the ball crosses the plate right” in a real smart tone. I still thought he was the HC so I said “ no more get in the dugout and yes I do know that”. In between innings the actual HC comes out and says “There guys are running out of the runners lane and their kids are yelling when my catcher is throwing the ball on a steal. You did read the rule book right?” Because he was the AC I told him that the HT is fine and to return to the dugout. Next half inning borderline pitch and I ball it and the pitcher has a reaction and the HC goes “it’s ok just another missed call” at that point I went to the dugout and said “no more from you or any other if your 6 assistant coaches the next person the argues balls and strikes is done got it” Everything went smooth them there on.

 

Need advice, is there anything I need to work on or could have handled better?

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Get a partner?  :P

It is tough to say without having been there.  Nothing seemed too egregious on its own, but it does seem like it was piling up.

The one thing I did notice in your story was this: did you have a pre-game plate meeting?  That is where the HC is established.  It doesn’t matter what is written on any piece of paper or what anybody’s opinion is ... for the sake of that game, the coach that came to the plate is the HC.  It is also your opportunity to set the tone (or nip that crap in the bud) before the game.

Some people here may say you were talking too much, but those things also can pile up without you realizing it.  A response here, a comment there ... next thing you know you are engaging the coaches to much but it is too late to stop it.

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Get a partner?  
It is tough to say without having been there.  Nothing seemed too egregious on its own, but it does seem like it was piling up.
The one thing I did notice in your story was this: did you have a pre-game plate meeting?  That is where the HC is established.  It doesn’t matter what is written on any piece of paper or what anybody’s opinion is ... for the sake of that game, the coach that came to the plate is the HC.  It is also your opportunity to set the tone (or nip that crap in the bud) before the game.
Some people here may say you were talking too much, but those things also can pile up without you realizing it.  A response here, a comment there ... next thing you know you are engaging the coaches to much but it is too late to stop it.

Thanks for the help. When the AC walked out to the plate meeting there was only one other coach on the bench. I don’t normally look into the dugouts that often unless the are chirping so the next time I looked into the dugout there were 7 guys in there. I do agree with you too much was said and it piled on.

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Possible that the travel org has a rule about number of coaches?  I know that Little League allows one HC and 1-2 AC depending on the roster, at least for future games you’d be able to clear out that dugout some. 

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9 hours ago, RC2004 said:

the AC goes “ you do know it is where the ball crosses the plate right” in a real smart tone.

 the actual HC comes out and says “There guys are running out of the runners lane and their kids are yelling when my catcher is throwing the ball on a steal. You did read the rule book right?”

the HC goes “it’s ok just another missed call”

Three ejections you passed on, besides the chirping. The title of your post is odd, like you escaped a problem. As you will learn, the only ejection you regret is the one you didn't issue. Don't be afraid to toss offenders--your day will be better (and quieter) for it.

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7 hours ago, LRZ said:
Three ejections you passed on, besides the chirping. The title of your post is odd, like you escaped a problem. As you will learn, the only ejection you regret is the one you didn't issue. Don't be afraid to toss offenders--your day will be better (and quieter) for it.


Absolutely! Thanks for the advice. I learned after that game that I regretted not tossing the coach.

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Point 0, made already, but I'll say it again:  never work solo.  I realize that's not intentional, and it can't always be helped, but if the team is booing you, then certainly impress upon them getting two guys.

And yes, there were plenty of ejectable moments earlier in your post.  Honestly, the biggest failing was not getting SOMEbody.  LRZ is spot-on:  while you might regret having to GET to the point of an ejection (and might be able to find where "it all went wrong"), you won't actually regret the ejection itself.  You regret the EJs you know you SHOULD have made, but didn't.

Besides, if they had a coaching staff like a football team, no one's gonna miss the outside-linebacker-coach when you gun him.  One head on a pike makes things a LOT quieter.

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13 hours ago, RC2004 said:

 

Was working 11u travel ball. I knew it would be a rough game already when I first walked out and before I even called a plate meeting the VT assistant coach (Did not know he was the assistant at the time) came out and asked me “where is your partner at?” I said “they HT only booked one guy .” His response “well you should have two guys.” I said “there is no other partner, play ball”. So the game went on and his pitcher started to struggle. They started asking where the pitch was missing. I was nice and told them where and was and that the last one was close. Next batter 1-2 count borderline pitch and I ball it. Just moans and groans on that pitch. Next pitch bases clearing Triple. Catcher takes the bat and chucks it at the on deck circle as I am brushing off the plate. After I finish I told him “ you’re lucky no one was over there or you would have already been gone. Next time you throw anything over there your done. He said ok and the game went on. After about the 4th inning the balls started to get real sand paper like and the HT was out of balls. The AC for the VT was complaining about the balls now. ( still did not know he was the AC, there were 7 coaches on the bench.) nothing major I let it go. The next pitch comes and I ball it and the AC goes “ you do know it is where the ball crosses the plate right” in a real smart tone. I still thought he was the HC so I said “ no more get in the dugout and yes I do know that”. In between innings the actual HC comes out and says “There guys are running out of the runners lane and their kids are yelling when my catcher is throwing the ball on a steal. You did read the rule book right?” Because he was the AC I told him that the HT is fine and to return to the dugout. Next half inning borderline pitch and I ball it and the pitcher has a reaction and the HC goes “it’s ok just another missed call” at that point I went to the dugout and said “no more from you or any other if your 6 assistant coaches the next person the argues balls and strikes is done got it” Everything went smooth them there on.

 

Need advice, is there anything I need to work on or could have handled better?

 

Welcome, fellow central OH brother. Since COYBL uses Fed as the base rule set, don't be afraid to use the bench restriction - and use it early.  Perfect time would have been after the "you know it's where it crosses the plate?" nonsense. It puts them on notice and makes the eventual report - if it gets to that - much easier. 

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Probably could have handled an 11 year old catcher in a much less confrontational manner.  "Do me a favor and be careful when you toss the bat towards the on deck circle.  We din't need anybody getting hurt".  

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Welcome, fellow central OH brother. Since COYBL uses Fed as the base rule set, don't be afraid to use the bench restriction - and use it early.  Perfect time would have been after the "you know it's where it crosses the plate?" nonsense. It puts them on notice and makes the eventual report - if it gets to that - much easier. 

Thank you for the kind words. I need to remember that because I often switch between LL, Middle a School, and COYBL. Thanks!

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Probably could have handled an 11 year old catcher in a much less confrontational manner.  "Do me a favor and be careful when you toss the bat towards the on deck circle.  We din't need anybody getting hurt".  

I agree with you I was a little too confrontational. I tried too by telling him that as I was taking warm up pitches the next inning with my mask on. I was too confrontational.
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17 hours ago, RC2004 said:


Thanks for the help. When the AC walked out to the plate meeting there was only one other coach on the bench. I don’t normally look into the dugouts that often unless the are chirping so the next time I looked into the dugout there were 7 guys in there. I do agree with you too much was said and it piled on.

 

So the “AC” actually was the HC for all intents and purposes of this game.

The tough thing with a game like this is not getting to the point that you look like you are gunning for an ejection.  That is tough when it reaches the point that more than one person is shopping for tickets to ride The Hook Express.

Yes, you had ample reason to dump multiple people, but I hope you look more at the moments that led up to those opportunities and how you could work on your game management skills.  Lots of people have said “you only regret the ejection you don’t do” ... please don’t mistake that for “you did everything right but should have jettisoned coaches.”  Don’t work on your ejections, work on not reaching that point.

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1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

Lots of people have said “you only regret the ejection you don’t do” ... please don’t mistake that for “you did everything right but should have jettisoned coaches.”  Don’t work on your ejections, work on not reaching that point.

Disagree, a little.  Let me try and sound it out, and see if I'm just full of sh*# or not.

For one thing, I don't think it's "you only regret the EJ you don't get."  Not ONLY - yeah, you definitely regret ones you don't get, because you've let some nosepicker leave a game, thinking that way - whatever it was - is the way he can, and should, act on a ballfield.  AND you've left that mess for some OTHER guy to deal with, who will ALSO get a side order of "I've never been ejected for [X] before!!"  But even when you eject, there's sometimes a feeling of regret, because you may well have been able to otherwise deflect the situation to something less volatile.

But you SHOULD work on ejections, because sometimes that's what's needed, and it's really the only solution to the problem.  For me, at least, drawing a line with the bat is a punched ticket.  It's only happened to me once, and there was no real precursor to it.  Dude didn't like a pitch, and fussed a little.  I told him it was a good pitch, and I think I added something about getting back in the box.  He then takes the bat and draws a line past the outside of the plate.  Whoosh - gone.  There was no real "reaching that point" - we arrived right ON "that point."

It's nearly 11:30pm local, so I'm a little rambly.  But I just was struck by the way that was phrased, and I don't quite agree with it.  But I WILL say that, in 11 years I've been on this site, I would love to have a dollar for every time the community was asked "Should I have ejected when ....?"  And I've love to have ANOTHER dollar for the number of times the collective answer was "yeah."

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"Though it is "very bad" to eject someone when they should not be ejected, it is "far worse" to keep someone in the game who should be ejected." (Al Barlick--HOF).

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One thing you could do is call more strikes. Sounds like most of the chirping was about pitches you balled. I'd rather have people upset about a borderline pitch I called a strike.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

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Nope, not disagreeing at all with you HokieUmp.  I just felt the conversation was leaning heavily towards “punch the ticket” when the OP was asking for advice.  I was just trying to balance that out a bit because it seemed like the situation was something that built up in increments until it was out of hand.  Once it hit that point, yes, it’s time for somebody to go check the glove box for napkins.  But if we could help him work towards NOT getting to that point ... better yet.

I just wanted to make sure the OP wasn’t reading the message as “drop ‘em early, drop ‘em often.”  Definitely ‘em when you have to.

I went almost 6 years into my career before I ejected somebody ... and then I popped 7 people in the next 4 weeks.  I was going home asking myself if there was something wrong with me that I was pulling the trigger too fast.  However all of them were earned: 2 travel ball ACs who wanted to come out and claim they were HCs to argue a call - tournament rule said “no rope” so I booted them; 4 parents at a Varsity BB game who decided they wanted to start a mini-riot in the stands; and a Varsity SB parent who came up with the gem “That ump is a cheater, his check is in his pocket!”.

We laugh and joke about ejections, and we take some pride in them when we tell our war stories.  However the ejection should never be a goal.

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Well, you can't look at "increments" in isolation: one "where was that pitch," followed by another complaint, and another.... For example: "The AC for the VT was complaining about the balls now.... nothing major I let it go." No, nip it, especially after the plate conference snarkiness, the call-questioning and the flung bat.

In fact, letting things go can lead to ejections. If you stop the moaning, groaning and snark from building up, you might possibly avoid ejections.

By the way, RC2004, when the VT AC complained about the baseballs and the HT was out, did the VT AC offer to supply new balls? Did you ask him? Even if it is the HT's responsibility, you might have politely told the VT to put up or shut up. Or say something like, "Coach, it's the same ball for both teams."

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I'm late to the party, but...

ALWAYS establish who the head coach is at the plate meeting and make sure they understand they will be the only ones you will be communicating with.  Then you can give the HC some slack and don't put up with anything from the ACs.  

If you are good with the "That's up, out, down, in" call on a close pitch, you don't need to communicate anything else to the bench.  If it was close, as was stated earlier, maybe it was close enough to grab a strike.

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Me:  "Who's the head coach?"

 

HC:  "I am."

 

Me:  "Get control of you assistant coaches or your gone.  That's your warning."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 7/26/2019 at 10:15 PM, RC2004 said:

 “ you do know it is where the ball crosses the plate right” 

insta-eject

On 7/27/2019 at 11:45 AM, scrounge said:

. You did read the rule book right?”

insta-eject

 

These aren't merely passive-aggressive specious remarks - they are affronts and fall squarely under the PERSONAL category.

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