HBP Strike 3 again

[Gfoley4]

 

[yawetag]

From the outfield camera, it does look like he leans his leg in, but from the side, it doesn't.

Good call.

[JSam21]

13 hours ago, yawetag said:

From the outfield camera, it does look like he leans his leg in, but from the side, it doesn't.

Good call.

This became a hot topic of debate on Facebook. It became really easy to see who understood the rule and who didn't.

[Thunderheads]

The problem with this 'new rule' is that no one knows about.   But then again, not that people typically know the rules anyhow!  

[humanbackstop19]

The beginning movement of the back knee, it was part of the swinging motion.  However, GREAT CALL seeing the slight pause in the back leg and additional movement into the pitch.  In this case, in the batter's box or not, the hitter did more than "freeze" and made an intentional motion to be hit by pitch.  See ya!

I do like that this is a reviewable play now and they stuck with the PU's judgement on the initial call.

[zoops]

I'll play devil's advocate.  I think that ball hits him even if he doesn't make that ever so slight flinch; Look at where the ball hit him - his knee is in the same spot it was when the pitch was released.  Pitcher threw a curveball riding into the batter's box.  HBP.  

[JSam21]

7 minutes ago, zoops said:

I'll play devil's advocate.  I think that ball hits him even if he doesn't make that ever so slight flinch; Look at where the ball hit him - his knee is in the same spot it was when the pitch was released.  Pitcher threw a curveball riding into the batter's box.  HBP.  

But it doesn't matter if it would have hit him without the flinch. He made an intentional move towards the baseball. 

 

[Haid D' Salaami]

This is great.. cause I disagree... no way he moved into that. But what do i know.. I'm watching it on the internet

[kylehutson]

The best part about this is that this is the one play where the home plate umpire actually has a better view of this than anybody, even the catcher. The ball is coming directly toward him, he can see the path of the ball and whether or not it would have hit the batter without movement. I bet the judgement of the umpire is never overruled on replay all season.

[BT_Blue]

@kylehutson never say never!

[kylehutson]

2 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

@kylehutson never say never!

I didn't. I said "I bet" - it's a subtle difference. 

[zoops]

Here's another good one.  I guess we could split hairs on the definition of the rule but I'm going to have a hard time calling this in the defense's favor on a pitch a foot into the batter box and the batter makes a subtle move to get hit.  Will be interesting if the NCAA has any commentary on these.

https://twitter.com/Halp24/status/1104509651561852930

[yawetag]

It's all about the batter's actions. In the one above, it definitely looks like he sticks his leg out to make his "target" bigger. If he were just spinning to protect his flank, it's one thing, but his front leg clearly extends when he turns, more than it would if he were just protecting himself. It's very obvious from the side angle (30 seconds in).

In fact, looking at it in slo-mo later on (1:10 or so), you can tell the ball wasn't *that* close to him and his "protecting" is actually putting himself in the path.

The biggest argument here is the penalty. But I think NCAA is doing it right by making it a strike. If you just keep him at the plate and give him a ball, there's really no penalty for doing it. By giving the strike, the players are going to learn that this action won't be advantageous.

And the announcers are horrible.

[kylehutson]

57 minutes ago, yawetag said:

And the announcers are horrible.

And so are most of the people commenting on Twitter.

[yawetag]

I assume all the general population, 90% of players, and (at most) 50% of coaches don't know the specifics of any intermediate or advanced rule.

Trying to teach them is almost impossible. I've attempted it before at different times on reddit to very little success. As long as I get one person to understand, though, I've done my job.

[kylehutson]

You'll notice I didn't chime in to correct anybody.

[noumpere]

14 minutes ago, yawetag said:

I assume all the general population, 90% of players, and (at most) 50% of coaches know the specifics of any intermediate or advanced rule.

Trying to teach them is almost impossible. I've attempted it before at different times on reddit to very little success. As long as I get one person to understand, though, I've done my job.

I make just the opposite assumption

[yawetag]

59 minutes ago, noumpere said:

I make just the opposite assumption

Fixed. I meant "don't know"

[Forest Ump]

One of the best items added to the new HBP rule,  Coaches can not leave their position and argue the call.  Coaches can come out and ask what happened but they must be warned that if they argue the call they will be ejected.

[beerguy55]

NFW.  I hate this call.   I want it to be a lot more obvious.  This looks like bracing for impact, not attempting impact.   He didn't move his leg into the ball - he's in the midst of a natural weight transfer.   It's also difficult for a batter to conceptualize the pitch hitting his back leg, back arm, back shoulder (I had my back collar bone broken by a pitch) in realtime - they're focusing on protecting the part of their body closest to the pitcher.   Anything to do with the back half of the body comes as as surprise.

In real time at full speed this is not only incredibly difficult to pull off intentionally - moving your back leg to get hit by a curve ball - the vast majority of players will do everything humanly possible to NOT get hit on the knee or thigh.

 

[Richvee]

7 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

NFW.  I hate this call.   I want it to be a lot more obvious.  This looks like bracing for impact, not attempting impact.   He didn't move his leg into the ball - he's in the midst of a natural weight transfer.   It's also difficult for a batter to conceptualize the pitch hitting his back leg, back arm, back shoulder (I had my back collar bone broken by a pitch) in realtime - they're focusing on protecting the part of their body closest to the pitcher.   Anything to do with the back half of the body comes as as surprise.

In real time at full speed this is not only incredibly difficult to pull off intentionally - moving your back leg to get hit by a curve ball - the vast majority of players will do everything humanly possible to NOT get hit on the knee or thigh.

 

You’re underestimating the “skills” these D1 kids have developed to make if look like they’re not trying to get hit. It’s an epidemic in college ball. Players are bragging at one another about how good they are at getting hit and not getting caught. It’s the coaches that wanted something done about it. It’s a good rule. Players will adjust and learn to stop the practice. 

[BT_Blue]

5 minutes ago, Richvee said:

You’re underestimating the “skills” these D1 kids have developed to make if look like they’re not trying to get hit. It’s an epidemic in college ball. Players are bragging at one another about how good they are at getting hit and not getting caught. It’s the coaches that wanted something done about it. It’s a good rule. Players will adjust and learn to stop the practice. 

And its filtering down into High School now. The kids arent as good at it... yet. But they can get there if allowed too. Only issue I can see is that you will have umpires that dont know how to enforce this rule F-ing it all up.

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, BT_Blue said:

And its filtering down into High School now. The kids arent as good at it... yet. But they can get there if allowed too. Only issue I can see is that you will have umpires that dont know how to enforce this rule F-ing it all up.

Yep.  But I’m not looking for FED to be changing rules any time soon. Maybe they’ll just add a case play like the lodged ball case. 

[BT_Blue]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

Yep.  But I’m not looking for FED to be changing rules any time soon. Maybe they’ll just add a case play like the lodged ball case. 

Yeh... cause that one isnt clear as mud!

[yawetag]

Definitely seeing a lot more HS players doing chicken wings. On the bases so far this year, I've seen two HBP that I might have kept at the plate had I been on the plate.