Solo Ump, Steal at 2B

[isired]

Here's a question on technique that occurred to me watching my son's CHSAA games this year:

 

You're solo in a high school game. R1 attempts to steal 2B, nobody else on, batter takes the pitch. Do you make the call from behind the plate, or attempt to move - and if you're moving, what spot are you aiming to get to before getting set? I'm talking about 'ideally', obviously there are variables in each play, each umpire and the players involved...

 

I've seen the various umpires handle it differently, though I have to admit that those that don't move at all seem to make it harder on themselves, looking through the pitcher and sometimes the catcher to make the call.

 

But I have no experience with this, as I've (thankfully) never umpired a game above LL level solo - I think this seems like the hardest assignment you can get, some calls at 2B and others just seem impossible to get an angle on.

 

I will say most seem to accept this, have not seen any real arguments on those calls, mostly if the throw is on target and the ball gets there first, the call is out. A couple times a kid got up saying he missed the tag, but nobody said anything else - it would literally have been impossible for the umpire to see, and kids say the tag was a missed half the time anyway.

[Nic]

42 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Don't ya love it? Like the parents down the right or left field foul line that can somehow see inside/outside or over the plate better than we can from the slot.

1-1 B5 1 out R3 tags on lazy fly to left. Easily see R3 jump early --- as it was blatant. I had moved up the line to get both runner and the catch. Perfect position. Clearly he jumped. They appeal and I rang him up. 3rd out. 

Naturally fans of the OT goes crazy. OHC whines, "theres no way he jumped how did you even see it?! Theres NO way."  As he comes across the field.  Riles fans up again. They're booing me. Like, I'm back there getting an exit plan for when this game ends. And they're ALL dead wrong. 

Parents are nuts.

[ARK1215]

10 hours ago, jjb said:

I've found that moving to the left gives me a better angle on the play than moving to the right. A step or two will generally clear the RH batter, unless he moves backward

Agreed. You can’t close enough distance to make the call any easier. Solo is all about angles. I think being on the 3rd base side of the plate gives the better angle. 

[ARK1215]

3 hours ago, isired said:

I started the thread because as my kids are now beyond dad-coach, I'm thinking about getting back into umpiring- and I've always thought solo was an impossible task for some fairly common and important calls, and the thought of that isn't attractive. And the thought of being in that impossible position AND taking crap from parents about making calls at 130 ft. is just too much to take. I'm sure I'd end up feeling like you do, best case.

The other thing is that the thought of having to make a call based purely on "ball is there, tag is down" knowing there's a chance, however small, that the SS sold the tag but never made it, irks me. Everyone WANTS to be in the best position to make the right call.

Address it in your pregame meeting. I let them know I’ll hustle to get a good angle and when possible get closer. I also remind the HC’s I’m working solo so they have to deal with the inaccuracies that come with it. If they want someone 10’ away on a steal they should pay for 2 umps. I’ve got pretty good 20/15 vision though so if a kid looks out I’m calling it, I don’t care if I’m 130’ away. 

[noumpere]

5 hours ago, ARK1215 said:

Agreed. You can’t close enough distance to make the call any easier. Solo is all about angles. I think being on the 3rd base side of the plate gives the better angle. 

The "angle" call is the swipe tag.  You'll see that better from the right.  IT's instinctual, for whatever reason, to go left.  Fight the instinct and you'll be a better umpire.

 

(But, no matter which way you go, if it's "behind" the batter, you have to be sure he doens't (practice) swing as / after you move out -- they seem to not realize you are behind them).

[ARK1215]

2 hours ago, noumpere said:

The "angle" call is the swipe tag.  You'll see that better from the right.  IT's instinctual, for whatever reason, to go left.  Fight the instinct and you'll be a better umpire.

 

(But, no matter which way you go, if it's "behind" the batter, you have to be sure he doens't (practice) swing as / after you move out -- they seem to not realize you are behind them).

Good point on the swipe tag. From that distance it’s often ball beats runner, tag looks clean, runner out. 

The instinct to go left is, I think, because the catcher goes right when a RH batter is in the plate.

[umpstu]

21 hours ago, isired said:

 

Here's a question on technique that occurred to me watching my son's CHSAA games this year:

 

You're solo in a high school game. R1 attempts to steal 2B, nobody else on, batter takes the pitch. Do you make the call from behind the plate, or attempt to move - and if you're moving, what spot are you aiming to get to before getting set? I'm talking about 'ideally', obviously there are variables in each play, each umpire and the players involved...

 

I've seen the various umpires handle it differently, though I have to admit that those that don't move at all seem to make it harder on themselves, looking through the pitcher and sometimes the catcher to make the call.

 

But I have no experience with this, as I've (thankfully) never umpired a game above LL level solo - I think this seems like the hardest assignment you can get, some calls at 2B and others just seem impossible to get an angle on.

 

I will say most seem to accept this, have not seen any real arguments on those calls, mostly if the throw is on target and the ball gets there first, the call is out. A couple times a kid got up saying he missed the tag, but nobody said anything else - it would literally have been impossible for the umpire to see, and kids say the tag was a missed half the time anyway.

 

I make the call on the pitch then go to the side opposite the batter.  If the throw beats the runner and the tag is down, it's generally an automatic out if the fielder keeps possession of the ball.  Still, wait until everything is complete before making the call in the event the runner makes a really good slide and comes off of the back of the bag.  If the fielder then chases after the runner it makes it look as if the fielder didn't tag him.  At this point you might even get a few steps closer to the play, but make sure to be set prior to the call.

[aaluck]

After reading all of this Im very happy our area does to ever have a single ump on a 90ft field. In fact, I must admit that I never knew of anywhere this was done. That's a tall order for sure and there should be NO complaining on any call, but especially a steal of second, or pickoff at 3rd.

Remember, umpires are the only folks out there that are required to be perfect--even blocked out at 127 feet!!!

And why is it always the coach down by 3 in the bottom of the last inning with 0 outs stealing a kid to 3rd (out of course) yelling at me about bad decisions/calls??  Has anyone figured that one out? I swear, when (if) I finally decide to call it quits my last words are going to be at a stupid coach..."that's the worst coaching decision I've ever seen", as loud as I can scream.

[KCKUMP]

We have a serious umpire shortage in our area and a lot of areas around the country. Coaches don’t seem to understand them and the parents are the reason for that. I never worked solo games until the last couple of years. I tell coaches at the plate meeting I will do my best but please be understanding that it’s just me. For a steal of second intake the mask off and stay behind home. You can’t move until catcher throws and what is that going to do get you a step? 

[Mudisfun]

For steals at 2nd I typically move in the opposite direction the pitcher is coming off the mound. For a RHP that means I normally move to my left. Bad enough having to dance around the catcher, the batter and then have F1 standing in the middle right where your moving to get a view.

[aaluck]

2 hours ago, KCKUMP said:

We have a serious umpire shortage in our area and a lot of areas around the country

We do. Here in Alabama, in my area anyway, we are still doing fine.  In fact, at all 4 of the parks we do (ages spanning 5-20years old) only one has a single ump scheduled--and that is for developmental age 5.  ALL other age groups have 2 umps on the field.  But this is a serious problem and horror stories like those posted above do not help.

I always encourage young folks (high school kids) to get involved. Make a little extra money, get you off the couch, and learn a new skill (interacting with irrational folks, is the skill I speak of). I will tell you that when I have a young partner I put up with nothing directed toward him/her. If they make a mistake, which they will, as we all have done and still do, I fix it and we move on.  I let them know from the get-go there is no harassing a teenage kid learning how to umpire.

[Richvee]

11 hours ago, aaluck said:

I swear, when (if) I finally decide to call it quits my last words are going to be at a stupid coach..."that's the worst coaching decision I've ever seen", as loud as I can scream.

Last inning 2 outs, R2, down 2 runs. R2 takes off for 3rd while F1 is in the set. He steps and throws to 3rd, out by 10 feet. Game over. Coach (and parents) go completely off their rockers screaming at us "BALK BALK, he has to step off!!!  Read the rules, you're a disgrace", accompanied by more than a fair share of obscenities thrown in. . Had to post game eject both coaches and get in our cars and change at the gas station because of parents harassing us. You don't know how bad I wanted to lay into these morons about the worst coaching move I've ever seen in my life. 

[Jimurray]

Just to be clear, you all have 1 man wrong. The most important call is the steal of 2B, which is why you should be behind the pitcher. A seasoned one man umpire knows this and will always call behind the pitcher because, he is lazy, they are not paying him enough, he likes to wear ball bags on the bases or he thinks he has called enough balls and strikes behind the plate and it won't be worth his while to call another game behind the plate and continue to perfect his craft even more. Even SH*#ty pitchers can make your tracking better.

[wolfe_man]

8 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Just to be clear, you all have 1 man wrong. The most important call is the steal of 2B, which is why you should be behind the pitcher. A seasoned one man umpire knows this and will always call behind the pitcher because, he is lazy, they are not paying him enough, he likes to wear ball bags on the bases or he thinks he has called enough balls and strikes behind the plate and it won't be worth his while to call another game behind the plate and continue to perfect his craft even more. Even SH*#ty pitchers can make your tracking better.

I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but I asked my association about it this year.  I was told I can't call from behind the pitcher.  I believe you would be in better position for almost all calls (except a shot down the line) - and you can still call balls/strikes as well.  I wasn't crazy about wearing a ball bag out there, but I was going to do it until my assignor shot me down.

I have done at least 13-14 solos already this year in HS ball.

I normally employ the method Maven and others have suggested.  Move to opposite side of batter and far enough out to see past pitcher.  If ball is there first and nothing pops out, he's out.  No complaints.  No appeals.  I call 'em like I see 'em.

Sarcasm Warning:  I have found that if you ask the batter to slide to the back of the bag - and the fielder to put the tag on the pitching side of the base it makes this call somewhat easier.

[noumpere]

49 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

I'm not sure if you're serious or not,

I am.

[wolfe_man]

13 minutes ago, noumpere said:

I am.

Surely, you can't be serious?

 

[isired]

Pretty sure the 1 man comment wasn't serious... I think being behind the pitcher is fine for 8 year olds, you could maybe argue all of LL because of the shorter distance, smaller pitchers, no holding runners on, etc. I don't know that you can accurately call pitches with movement from 70 feet away, and as mentioned in another thread, you get pushback on balls and strikes as it is, you're bound to have guys that think they have a better view from the dugout than you do from that distance. Besides, how do you handle standing between F1 and 2B with F1 trying to hold a runner on?

Either way, I think you're compromising a call that happens 200 times a game to have a better view of a handful of plays.

[wolfe_man]

46 minutes ago, isired said:

Pretty sure the 1 man comment wasn't serious... I think being behind the pitcher is fine for 8 year olds, you could maybe argue all of LL because of the shorter distance, smaller pitchers, no holding runners on, etc. I don't know that you can accurately call pitches with movement from 70 feet away, and as mentioned in another thread, you get pushback on balls and strikes as it is, you're bound to have guys that think they have a better view from the dugout than you do from that distance. Besides, how do you handle standing between F1 and 2B with F1 trying to hold a runner on?

Either way, I think you're compromising a call that happens 200 times a game to have a better view of a handful of plays.

I'm not sure and it's fine either way.  I won't hi-jack this thread, but I disagree with not being able to see pitches with movement.  We're in B or C a lot during HS ball and you can see fine from out there.  Although, I will agree to avoid the most chance of arguments it is best to just stay back there behind the catcher, simply because there are 200+ pitches/calls back there versus maybe 5 out at 2B for steals.   Put the one man coverage where the action is I'm sure is the smartest move.

[aaluck]

12 hours ago, Richvee said:

Had to post game eject both coaches and get in our cars and change at the gas station because of parents harassing us. You don't know how bad I wanted to lay into these morons about the worst coaching move I've ever seen in my life.

This is exactly what I'm talking about....morons! Monday we were leaving the field 15-0 (ended 15 after 3) and I HEARD the "coach" telling his team the umps "were against us, we had no chance with 'those' umps". It's 15-0 and our fault? Like you I just kept walking.

[Biscuit]

24 minutes ago, aaluck said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about....morons! Monday we were leaving the field 15-0 (ended 15 after 3) and I HEARD the "coach" telling his team the umps "were against us, we had no chance with 'those' umps". It's 15-0 and our fault? Like you I just kept walking.

Umpire scapegoating at its finest.

[webspinnre]

I haven't had to work a game on the 90 foot basepaths solo in a couple of years, but I also took the approach of bringing it up in the pre-game. I'd tell them that I'd get the best vantage point I could and make the best call I could. I do try to take a few steps to the opposite of the batter. I love the advice of making the call and then taking a few more steps towards the base from a perception standpoint.

[noumpere]

30 minutes ago, webspinnre said:

I also took the approach of bringing it up in the pre-game.

I would NOT do this.  The good managers already know it; the bad ones won't care that you way it; why put the negative thought in the mind of those in the middle?