How many batters are allowed to warm up between innings?

[grayhawk]

"Two guys with bats, please."

Works every time in HS and college - never had anyone argue.

[Forest Ump]

Same here. I just say Batter and On Deck Only.

[Tborze]

Don't shoot the messenger

[Tborze]

1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

"Two guys with bats, please."

Works every time in HS and college - never had anyone argue.

5 guys with bats. Never had anyone argue. 

Game Management!  Who says, use the rules to solve a problem, not create one!?

[johnnyg08]

21 hours ago, Richvee said:

perfect example of using a rule to solve a problem and not create one. 6, 7 guys outside the dugout swinging bats is not only illegal it's a safety issue. Not allowing a player that needs to use the port-o-john to leave the dugout is NOT the INTENT  of the rule. 

There is one team in my area that does it every year. I'm convinced that I am the only one who enforces it. 

When I do their games now, it's kind of funny because a couple of the kids give me a grin like they know I'm the only one who enforces it. 

And what do I mean by it....the entire lineup 1-9 lined up outside of and parallel to the dugout swinging while the starting pitcher is warming up. 

It's annoying because if I were to end up filing an incident report or worse, I can kiss those games for that school goodbye. 

[Richvee]

2 hours ago, Tborze said:

5 guys with bats. Never had anyone argue. 

Game Management!  Who says, use the rules to solve a problem, not create one!?

Enjoy "managing"  that lawsuit when one of those 5 guys clocks another in the head and mom and dad found out your the one who let more than 2 guys swing bats at once.

[MadMax]

AHA! I found them!

and then this one...

and then there's even this one!...

This last one was specifically addressing High School (NFHS, Fed) Rules, wherein we (Umpires) have Rulebook Citations to support direction of the team(s) to only allow 2 batters outside the dugout. I noticed, too, that @Scotty_Ump's OP (above) has been tagged with "Fed", so he's likely inquiring about that. The following post I wrote at that time (found in that topic thread) is in no way disputing or refuting the/any rule enforcement; it is an experienced observation from the perspective of tournament baseball, wherein NFHS or OBR rulesets are used as foundations, but various parts are often ignored by Tournament Directors (who then direct the umpires as such) who are looking to "make no waves with their participating teams". 

Quote

In my experience and opinion, this is done by travel-ball / elite / academy teams as an "order in the ranks" and intimidation ploy. If it's emulated by High School teams, it's because they have kids or a coach on the team who also play for academy programs, and/or are trying to play the intimidation card.

The "order in the ranks" comes out of youth players enrolled in an elite academy program, where Dad and Mom have ponied up a steep tuition fee and want to (nay, expect to) see results. So, the coaching staff drills discipline into them, which is all well and good... admirable, even... regarding every nuance of the game. They preach that preparation is key. How you stand and have your glove ready while out in the field, all the way to how you tar or tape your bat. One of the most visible signifiers of a team prepared (at least to Mom & Dad) is "timing up the (new) pitcher". I have actually witnessed a Dad scurry out of the stands to head behind the dugout, beckon over an (assistant) coach, and notify him of the (obvious... we're all standing around watching it) pitching change, and wondering why his son and teammates are not out of the dugout timing this kid up.

Looking prepared and in attention to the game is vital to Dad & Mom (and thus, the paid coaches) because it's what sets you apart from the unwashed, rabble rec-league teams where kids are having booger wars or farting on each other or pleading for snacks and Powerade through the rusty chain-link fence during a pitching change. So, to whip the troops into shape, and keep them focused on the game (and Mom & Dad happy!), the coach will trot all his players out of the dugout during a dead-ball situation and give them something to do. If they're on defense, you might see the end-of-the-bench kids hustle out to throw long-toss with the F9, or initiate a makeshift bullpen session in Foul Ball Territory. If on offense, this is where you get all bumpteen players out and doing something that demonstrates you're paying attention to the new pitcher and you'll be prepared when it's your at-bat.

Round-about age 14/15, it transitions from attention-demonstration to intimidation. At age 14/15, these kids have already seen enough pitches to become good hitters. Besides, their coaches, in these elite programs, have them conditioned to take pitches anyway. Instead, it's an intimidation ploy, to get in the head of this 16-year old pitcher who's being brought in after his teammate just got shellaqued by 4 straight doubles. As soon as the new F1 takes the ball, all 12 of you are out there, in front of the dugout, in your fancy uniforms, mohawks (gotta look like Bryce Harper), eye black (even though it's an overcast game) and swinging $200 composite bats. Oh yeah, pitcher, we've got you figured out.

We did the same thing in soccer and hockey. Heck, we still do it. We used to have a defenseman who would camp out at the blue line during the skate-arounds and bounce pucks and then slap shots in epic fashion at the goalie (which was often me). Was he really in need of practicing that? Nope. Was I in need of having to brace for and try and stop a tumbling rock while warming up? Nope. This was just to show off to the other team what he could do.

And if three wasn't enough, there's a fourth!

 

 

[ricka56]

DHC: Blue, they have too many players swinging bats while my pitcher is warming up.

Me: Coach, you have a full plate coaching your team. I suggest that you go tend to them.

If worrying about  frivolous law suits is a "real" concern, there is insurance available to cover your TWP fears. 

[Richvee]

2 hours ago, MadMax said:

Tournament Directors (who then direct the umpires as such) who are looking to "make no waves with their participating  paying teams

Just a little fix.

[MadMax]

49 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Just a little fix.

Thanks Rich for correcting my careless oversight. 

The Big Five Ignored Rules (4 of them are Fed “safety rules”!!) at tournaments:

1. Necklaces / jewelry (pitchers still cannot wear anything on the throwing wrist)

2. Catchers may wear an earless batting helmet (skullcap) and traditional mask

3.  Batting team will have >2 players up warming / timing up the opposing pitcher during Dead Ball time (tolerated if all have helmets on)

4. Players (and some coaches, for that matter) are everywhere besides the dugouts. Whether that be chasing down foul balls, running the warning track, behind the backstop visiting with their parents, off to the bathroom (or concession stand), or seeking out the complex’s common-ground bullpen (and thus, you the umpire have no way of policing how the catcher is receiving those warmup pitches), they are not all confined within the bounds of the dugout. The only “chance” you have as an umpire to exert authority is to keep helmets on those members of the OT out of the dugout, trying to keep that number to 1 OD batter, and keeping them from creeping closer and closer to the home plate circle. Then you have that 3BC that wants to give his just-retired runner a tutorial on baserunning in the 3BC box.

5. Teams may bat 9/10/11–14, and there are free defensive exchanges / substitutions. If injured, a player is Withdrawn (scratched from lineup) and the lineup compressed with no Out penalty, unless the lineup drops below 9.

Tournaments do this constantly because while the participants know (of) Fed Rules for playability (feint to 3rd is legal, FPSR at 2nd, immediate Dead on Balk, etc), the TDs aren’t as draconian in the “fine print” Fed Rules application...

oh, and if I was to add a 6th, it’s the amount of latitude encouraged of us umpires to grant to coaches (ie. the amount of SH*# we take) before ejecting them.