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Guest Mikr

Guest Mikr

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Posted

Why was the slide rule not called when Russo slide past second in the 4 th inning

 

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noumpere
noumpere

the slide violated this clause under FED rules (and the similar clause under NCAA rules) -- the "entire body" is supposed to be in a line between 1b and 2b; while some leeway is often given (after all

Rich Ives
Rich Ives

Because it didn't violate the OBR slide rule. 

noumpere
noumpere

Here's the OBR rule.  It's different from the FED and NCAA rule: (j) (7.14) Sliding to Bases on Double Play Attempts If a runner does not engage in a bona fide slide, and initiates

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noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Guest Mikr said:

Why was the slide rule not called when Russo slide past second in the 4 th inning

 

Here's the OBR rule.  It's different from the FED and NCAA rule:

(j) (7.14)

Sliding to Bases on Double Play Attempts

If a runner does not engage in a bona fide slide, and initiates (or attempts to make) contact with the fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play, he should be called for interference under this Rule 6.01. A “bona fide slide” for purposes of Rule 6.01 occurs when the runner:

 

(1) begins his slide (i.e., makes contact with the ground) before reaching the base;

(2) is able and attempts to reach the base with his hand or foot;

(3) is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide; and

(4) slides within reach of the base without changing his path- way for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder.

 

A runner who engages in a “bona fide slide” shall not be called for interference under this Rule 6.01, even in cases where the runner makes contact with the fielder as a consequence of a permissible slide. In addition, interference shall not be called where a runner’s contact with the fielder was caused by the fielder being positioned in (or moving into) the runner’s legal pathway to the base.

 

Notwithstanding the above, a slide shall not be a “bona fide slide” if a runner engages in a “roll block,” or intentionally initiates (or attempts to initiate) contact with the fielder by elevating and kicking his leg above the fielder’s knee or throwing his arm or his upper body.

 

If the umpire determines that the runner violated this Rule 6.01(j), the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter-runner out. Note, however, that if the runner has already been put out then the runner on whom the defense was attempting to make a play shall be declared out.

 

 

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noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Sliding past the bag is legal in OBR and NCAA.  Only illegal in high school rules.

While true -- this slide was also to the side of the base.  It would have been illegal under both FED and NCAA rules.  Also the slide in the 8th(?) inning by some other cub that was reviewed would have been illegal under NCAA and FED.

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Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, noumpere said:

While true -- this slide was also to the side of the base.  It would have been illegal under both FED and NCAA rules.  Also the slide in the 8th(?) inning by some other cub that was reviewed would have been illegal under NCAA and FED.

that was a legal slide AT the base ...

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Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, noumpere said:

While true -- this slide was also to the side of the base.  It would have been illegal under both FED and NCAA rules.  Also the slide in the 8th(?) inning by some other cub that was reviewed would have been illegal under NCAA and FED.

The issue was going past the base. Legal.

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stkjock

stkjock

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

he slid past the bag, no doubt ....but didn't interfere with an impending play

I view "past" differently,

 

Also my understanding is that unless the runner is so far past the bag that he cannot maintain contact, they he's not guilty of INT 

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Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted
Just now, stkjock said:

I view "past" differently,

 

Also my understanding is that unless the runner is so far past the bag that he cannot maintain contact, they he's not guilty of INT 

the mlb rule was posted and clarified ....there was no violation on that slide

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stkjock

stkjock

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Thunderheads said:

the mlb rule was posted and clarified ....there was no violation on that slide

yes, I am aware of that, thanks 

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Stk004

Stk004

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Thunderheads said:

the mlb rule was posted and clarified ....there was no violation on that slide

I don't have Rizzo attempting to reach or remain on the bag at all. 

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noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

I don't have Rizzo attempting to reach or remain on the bag at all. 

At :07 you can see that his left foot is on the base.  And, given that his entire body is parallel to the 1b-2b line, this is clearly going to meet the "reach" requirement.  "Stay on" is open for some debate, I agree.  But, when he just rolls over on his back,l his shoulder hit (or nearly so) the base.

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Stk004

Stk004

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, noumpere said:

At :07 you can see that his left foot is on the base.  And, given that his entire body is parallel to the 1b-2b line, this is clearly going to meet the "reach" requirement.  "Stay on" is open for some debate, I agree.  But, when he just rolls over on his back,l his shoulder hit (or nearly so) the base.

I see your point. 

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Kevin_K

Kevin_K

Posted
Posted

Indulge me for a moment......

@ :07 seconds Napoli slides across the outfield side of 2B, making contact with the F6's foot as the fielder attempts to reach back to the bag to force the runner. Both feet seem to be trying to occupy the same part of the bag.

Neither F6 nor R1 are beyond the bag and R1's foot is below the knee when contact is made. F6 and R1 subsequently get tangled on the outfield side of 2B, and when they untangle, R1 is in contact with the bag with his left arm and shoulder

Fed Rule  2-32-2 reads: A slide is illegal if:

a. the runner uses a rolling, cross-body or pop-up slide into the fielder, or

b. the runner's raised leg is higher than the fielder's knee when the fielder is in a standing position, or

c. the runner goes beyond the base and then makes contact with or alters the play of the fielder, or

d. the runner slashes or kicks the fielder with either leg, or

e. the runner tries to injure the fielder, or

f. the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line between the two bases.

As I see it from nearly 24 hours later, getting two here would be a real hard sell as it appears that the slide is into the bag and contact is not made beyond the bag. The contact is with a foot that is on the bag in real time.... you can hear Hirschbeck saying he got back to the bag.

The interpretations online for Fed don't really address a play like this. Offer me some details that I might be missing.

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Guest Josh

Guest Josh

Posted
Posted

(3) is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide.

It is very obvious in this video that he did not attempt to remain on second base. Yes, he did initially make contact with second base, but did not attempt to remain on the base. I don't care that he could have rolled over and touched the base. The rule doesn't say just slide close enough that you can roll over and touch it...it says you have to remain on the base.  

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Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Guest Josh said:

(3) is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide.

It is very obvious in this video that he did not attempt to remain on second base. Yes, he did initially make contact with second base, but did not attempt to remain on the base. I don't care that he could have rolled over and touched the base. The rule doesn't say just slide close enough that you can roll over and touch it...it says you have to remain on the base.  

Hirschbeck is old school. He didn't call it and nobody wanted to go there. It could have been called.

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Stk004

Stk004

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Hirschbeck is old school. He didn't call it and nobody wanted to go there. It could have been called.

Well and those guys have replay so that New York can call the ticky tack stuff (think blocking the plate a couple years ago). 

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Mister B

Mister B

Posted
Posted

These guys are always going to try to break up the double play. The slide appeared legal according to the rules. 

As for attempting to remain on the base. He was close enough that he could touch the bag with his shoulder. I think Rizzo knew he was out so there was really no reason to hang out on the bag. 

Breaking up the play is part of the game, I think the updated rule adds some safety without making it impossible to slide. Rizzo had to haul ass to try to make it to second, make sure he avoided the ball and the fielder and keep an eye on the 3B coach. What is the correct measurement for where he can slide and can the umpire measure it quickly? 

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Richvee

Richvee

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Nobody was going to go there with Hirschbeck at 2B. Could have been called by MLB/OBR rules.

Even money says Hirschbeck never even saw the slide. He got caught out of position with the touch happening on the far side of the bag from him. That was the one thing he was concentrating on....F6's foot getting back to the bag. Tough night for Hirsch, as that play wasn't long after the dropped ball from Baez' bare hand that called an out on. 

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noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

Indulge me for a moment......

@ :07 seconds Napoli slides across the outfield side of 2B, making contact with the F6's foot as the fielder attempts to reach back to the bag to force the runner. Both feet seem to be trying to occupy the same part of the bag.

Neither F6 nor R1 are beyond the bag and R1's foot is below the knee when contact is made. F6 and R1 subsequently get tangled on the outfield side of 2B, and when they untangle, R1 is in contact with the bag with his left arm and shoulder

Fed Rule  2-32-2 reads: A slide is illegal if:

a. the runner uses a rolling, cross-body or pop-up slide into the fielder, or

b. the runner's raised leg is higher than the fielder's knee when the fielder is in a standing position, or

c. the runner goes beyond the base and then makes contact with or alters the play of the fielder, or

d. the runner slashes or kicks the fielder with either leg, or

e. the runner tries to injure the fielder, or

f. the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line between the two bases.

As I see it from nearly 24 hours later, getting two here would be a real hard sell as it appears that the slide is into the bag and contact is not made beyond the bag. The contact is with a foot that is on the bag in real time.... you can hear Hirschbeck saying he got back to the bag.

The interpretations online for Fed don't really address a play like this. Offer me some details that I might be missing.

the slide violated this clause under FED rules (and the similar clause under NCAA rules) -- the "entire body" is supposed to be in a line between 1b and 2b; while some leeway is often given (after all, many players have bodies that are wider than the bases), if this play happened in the CWS and was not called it would be on next spring's video.

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