To pivot or not to pivot

[kstrunk]

I was at a AA game Sunday (Trenton Thunder v. Akron Rubberducks), 2 umpire system, very educational.

BU in 'A' on a hit that was quite possibly a triple off the bat; from 'A', he ran almost directly to the 3B cutout (he cut through the working area), WITHOUT pivoting between 1st and 2nd. He noticeably observed the touches of 1st and 2nd by BR, and he was having coffee at 3rd when BR arrived. I'd never heard of this, but thought it was pretty smart, much quicker, and easier on the legs...

...so in my game yesterday, I thought if I get the opportunity, I'm going to try it. I got 2 opportunities on hits that were almost certainly triples off the bat. What a difference! I didn't feel  behind or rushed at all, and I had perfect position BEFORE the BR arrived. I was able to see all touches, and the ball. 

I'm guessing this is a fairly normal mechanic, but my inexperience inhibits my certainty. If it's unacceptable, I need to know so I don't look like a smitty and lose assignments. Is a pivot mandatory? 

[Thunderheads]

I was at a AA game Sunday (Trenton Thunder v. Akron Rubberducks), 2 umpire system, very educational.

BU in 'A' on a hit that was quite possibly a triple off the bat; from 'A', he ran almost directly to the 3B cutout (he cut through the working area), WITHOUT pivoting between 1st and 2nd. He noticeably observed the touches of 1st and 2nd by BR, and he was having coffee at 3rd when BR arrived. I'd never heard of this, but thought it was pretty smart, much quicker, and easier on the legs...

...so in my game yesterday, I thought if I get the opportunity, I'm going to try it. I got 2 opportunities on hits that were almost certainly triples off the bat. What a difference! I didn't feel  behind or rushed at all, and I had perfect position BEFORE the BR arrived. I was able to see all touches, and the ball. 

I'm guessing this is a fairly normal mechanic, but my inexperience inhibits my certainty. If it's unacceptable, I need to know so I don't look like a smitty and lose assignments. Is a pivot mandatory? 

​......you witnessed it ........ no ........ know where the ball is, and see the touch ...I think it's more situational awareness

[johnnyg08]

I have been told by a few guys in our area to not pivot.  I still pivot from time to time.

[UmpJeff]

That's exactly what we were taught at Bruce Doane's camp the past two years.  Mark Ditsworth, an NCAA Regional Supervisor instructed on the bases and told us not to pivot but rather bee-line exactly how you saw it on Sunday.  Now, on a straight base hit or double, you're not going to go straight to the cut-out at 3B, obviously.  But, you will move further out on the baseline between 1B and 2B on extra base hits.  

As @Thunderheads said, know where the ball is and see the touch(es).  I like this mechanic much, much better than the traditional pivot.

[maven]

First off, why is EL using 2 umpires in that game? They use 3-umpire crews.

Second, I'm glad to see my Ducks clobbered the Thunder on Sunday, taking 2 out of 3 for the series.

The no-pivot is used for obvious extra base hits. For singles, it still makes sense to pivot.

That said, I'd recommend checking with your state. The FED manual, which my state asks us to observe, still requires the pivot whenever BU takes the runner. We've been told that playoff assignments can hinge on conformity to the manual.

[Mudder]

I always pivot.  So after cutting into the infield from A, ahead of the runner, on a extra base hit and you don't pivot would you pick up the touch of BR of 1B by glancing over your right shoulder, while keeping your body facing the working area/3B area?  Wouldn't this be pretty far to turn your head to pick up the touch considering where you will be when BR rounds 1B and not pivoting?

[kstrunk]

First off, why is EL using 2 umpires in that game? They use 3-umpire crews.

Second, I'm glad to see my Ducks clobbered the Thunder on Sunday, taking 2 out of 3 for the series.

The no-pivot is used for obvious extra base hits. For singles, it still makes sense to pivot.

That said, I'd recommend checking with your state. The FED manual, which my state asks us to observe, still requires the pivot whenever BU takes the runner. We've been told that playoff assignments can hinge on conformity to the manual.

​??? I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but rest assured, I can count umpires... there were 2. 

The ducks smacked the starter around pretty good, 7 or 8 hits for 7 runs, and none of them were cheap. 

Totally agree that we should pivot as a matter of habit, but on those sure triples, this mechanic sure speeds things up with no downside that I can tell (apart from regulations). 

But...I'm glad I asked, the last part of your answer is what I was curious about. I'll check what PIAA wants. Thanks. 

[kstrunk]

I always pivot.  So after cutting into the infield from A, ahead of the runner, on a extra base hit and you don't pivot would you pick up the touch of BR of 1B by glancing over your right shoulder, while keeping your body facing the working area/3B area?  Wouldn't this be pretty far to turn your head to pick up the touch considering where you will be when BR rounds 1B and not pivoting?

​Quite easy to look over your LEFT shoulder and see the touch of 1st, then look over the right shoulder to see touch of 2nd. 

[zm1283]

AA is 3-man crews all the time. Maybe someone got moved up to AAA or went down sick/injured and they didn't have time to get a fill-in. 

I never pivot if it's an extra base hit. Just peek that he touched first and cleared the first baseman. 

[maineump]

If I read an extra base hit I will bust in toward the working area, making sure the runner touches (look over my shoulder) - you need to pick up the ball, so you can get in position for the play at 2B or 3B, because it might be a banger and you need to be there.

I can do the pivot easily (and always do it, on a base hit or a possibility of a double). On an extra base hit - you probably won't have a play back into 1B (which is what the pivot sets you up for).

The guys doing that game are trying to get to the bigs, so they are mechanically spot-on, in general.

[ElkOil]

I've dropped the pivot from my repertoire.  It's easier and more efficient to look over my shoulder -- and makes it easier on extra base hits.  I accomplish the same goals without the extra work.

[MadMax]

​Quite easy to look over your LEFT shoulder and see the touch of 1st, then look over the right shoulder to see touch of 2nd. 

​Exactly as you say, @kstrunk, you look over the left shoulder for 1B, then turn your head to pick up where the ball is, then turn your head again to look over the right shoulder. Bang on.

I was put onto this practice by an umpire colleague who is a regional trainer, who watched my footwork and was impressed on how fast I can transition from forwards to backwards to forwards (football safety, basketball guard, soccer centerback, etc.). He imparted that the pivot is no longer being taught, and as @UmpJeff notes, it's no longer being taught in NCAA ranks. The reasons (at least what the colleague told me) are two-fold: First is the age of some of the umpires, and the speed of the college players. Many of these young men can fly, and will easily stretch a single into a double, all while you (as BU) are still in the middle of your pivot, and then you have to complete it. Then, if you haven't picked up the whereabouts of the ball (yet), because you're focused on getting the touch at 1B and then potentially having to gather yourself to move on to 2B, you might be in the firing line for a throw. Second, the increased use of FieldTurf and artificial surfaces presents different footing and traction, and does make pivot maneuvers more challenging for the elder, less athletically-inclined. I'm in quite-good shape, and I am very aware of the footing differences between natural grass and FieldTurf when I play soccer, having to regularly and abruptly pivot.

On 50-70 fields, the players (typically U12-U11) are getting so (relatively) mature and talented, they will try to (and do) put out BRs from F7 and F8. You read a sharp liner through the infield, so you come in and pivot, and suddenly, you've got a deep F6 or even an F7 comin' up gunning. And before any of you fellows say "But you're supposed to read the ball before you pivot!", agreed, but equally so, you've already been burned by a fleet-footed 12-year old zipping right past you as you read a liner getting past F5, and having to chug _from behind him_ and be still on the move to the cut-out while a potential play is happening.

To heck with the pivot. You keep your chest towards the ball, and look over your left (or right) shoulder as needed to see the touch. Then, locate the ball and alter / adjust your route accordingly.

[Jimurray]

Why stop at the cutout and have a cup of coffee? Keep going to outside 3B.

[noumpere]

I will just add to all of this -- be sure you are really looking at the runner and be sure you stay long enough to see any OBS by F3 (or see that it's not OBS).

 

Watched a tournament this past weekend and many, many times this action was missed (fortunately, there was never any OBS to rule on -- but they would have been guessing).

[kstrunk]

I will just add to all of this -- be sure you are really looking at the runner and be sure you stay long enough to see any OBS by F3 (or see that it's not OBS).

 

Watched a tournament this past weekend and many, many times this action was missed (fortunately, there was never any OBS to rule on -- but they would have been guessing).

​You make a great point, and it's something I considered after the first triple yesterday. I was able to easily note the position of F3, F4, & F6, to rule out OBS. Definitely something to be cautious of though. 

[grayhawk]

Why stop at the cutout and have a cup of coffee? Keep going to outside 3B.

​I asked about this at the Wendelstedt clinic last year, and was told not to attempt to get to the outside on a triple in the 2 man system.  Brent said it was unlikely for an umpire to get to the right spot and to be completely set for the call.

[BillKen]

Why stop at the cutout and have a cup of coffee? Keep going to outside 3B.

​Too much can go wrong in what we do (amateur baseball).  Assume you are set up outside 3B and the freshman runner decides he's hosed and gets into a rundown and the tag is applied as he is retreating to 2B and you are straight-lined.  It looks fantastic when you do it and are there outside waiting...but it is very dangerous.

[LMSANS]

First off, why is EL using 2 umpires in that game? They use 3-umpire crews.

Second, I'm glad to see my Ducks clobbered the Thunder on Sunday, taking 2 out of 3 for the series.

The no-pivot is used for obvious extra base hits. For singles, it still makes sense to pivot.

That said, I'd recommend checking with your state. The FED manual, which my state asks us to observe, still requires the pivot whenever BU takes the runner. We've been told that playoff assignments can hinge on conformity to the manual.

​Fed also has PU take the BR coming into 3B.  So no issue with having to get to 3B.

[krwill96]

Funny thing about this topic is my assigner sent out an exchange between a local writer for Referee magazine and NCAA director of umpire training. I don't know if I am supposed to post it but here it is. 

 

My question regards the umpire pivot from A primarily in the two umpire system. I officiated for many years and although I knew the mechanics of the perfect umpire school left pivot I’ll be the first to admit that sometimes I peaked left and turned right especially on certain extra base hits. 
 
I have the 2015 CCA Baseball Manual along with all the other years but I’d very much appreciate it if you would describe the preferred pivot from A when the umpire enters the infield.
 
Specifically, do you recommend the pro umpire school pivot of turning left at the pivot point without losing site of the batter-runner or do you sometimes permit a right turn and a peak to the left at first base as I occasionally but certainly not always did? I’d very much like to hear your thoughts and conclusions on this topic so I can provide my umpires with the latest information possible to best prepare them for hopefully excelling NCAA Baseball umpiring.
 
Sincerely and thanks in advance for your comments,
 
Jay Miner,
Contributing Editor for Referee, NASO and MyReferee

 

Jay,

There are two important points when coming into the infield on a base hit.  1.  The umpire needs to be able to stay ahead of the batter runner and be in a position to clearly beat the batter runner to second or third base and be set to see the critical action of any play that may develop.  2.  The umpire needs to come into the infield knowing at all times the status of the baseball, where it is located and also to clearly see the batter runner touch first and any possible interference or obstruction that may take place in the area of first base.

 

As long as both of these are achieved, we are fine with however the umpire chooses to do this i.e.. pivot or looking over the shoulder.

 

As a side note, many of our collegiate officials are not 21 year old individuals that are typically trained at a professional umpiring school.  Many of our officials have attended professional umpiring school at one time or another but a vast majority of our officials are individuals with a tremendous amount of experience that are in their 40's, 50's and 60's and must take this into account when deciding how to come into the infield to achieve both points previously mentioned.

 

I hope this has been helpful.  

 

Tom Hiler

  
ASE55

[woodiemiller]

I was at a AA game Sunday (Trenton Thunder v. Akron Rubberducks), 2 umpire system, very educational.

BU in 'A' on a hit that was quite possibly a triple off the bat; from 'A', he ran almost directly to the 3B cutout (he cut through the working area), WITHOUT pivoting between 1st and 2nd. He noticeably observed the touches of 1st and 2nd by BR, and he was having coffee at 3rd when BR arrived. I'd never heard of this, but thought it was pretty smart, much quicker, and easier on the legs...

...so in my game yesterday, I thought if I get the opportunity, I'm going to try it. I got 2 opportunities on hits that were almost certainly triples off the bat. What a difference! I didn't feel  behind or rushed at all, and I had perfect position BEFORE the BR arrived. I was able to see all touches, and the ball. 

I'm guessing this is a fairly normal mechanic, but my inexperience inhibits my certainty. If it's unacceptable, I need to know so I don't look like a smitty and lose assignments. Is a pivot mandatory? 

​This is referred to the "AAA" mechanic. It saves wear & tear on ankles & knees. It maybe known now as the "AA" mechanic. Also recognize minor league umpires are not allowed to do the scissors.

[CricketChapman]

After reading this thread, I emailed a MiLB buddy of mine.  His first sentence was, "Always pivot," and he said that pivoting is what the PBUC brass want to see.  So, there's the professional take on this.

[zm1283]

After reading this thread, I emailed a MiLB buddy of mine.  His first sentence was, "Always pivot," and he said that pivoting is what the PBUC brass want to see.  So, there's the professional take on this.

​That is what they teach at umpire school and is what is probably expected up through Single A when they work in 2-man crews. 

[RingEmUp]

 

I stopped pivoting last year and I love it.  I'm not super fast or fast for that matter so any steps I can take towards a base to beat the runner then I'm taking them.  Pivoting just slows me down and once I have momentum built up then I can't just go twirling about the working area.  My 40 year old knees just aren't what they once were BMC (Before Marine Corps).

 

edit: to try to remove hidden content.  I have had more problems since the update with posting than I care to count.

Edited May 7, 2015 by RingEmUp

[jjskitours]

I always pivot.  So after cutting into the infield from A, ahead of the runner, on a extra base hit and you don't pivot would you pick up the touch of BR of 1B by glancing over your right shoulder, while keeping your body facing the working area/3B area?  Wouldn't this be pretty far to turn your head to pick up the touch considering where you will be when BR rounds 1B and not pivoting?

​I glance back over my left shoulder. I see no need to pivot on base hits to CF and LF. On a hit to RF, the pivot allows me to pick up the ball quicker. Works for me.