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BU Indicator

MT73

By MT73
in Umpire Mechanics

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MidAmUmp
MidAmUmp

​There's a larger issue here... it's called paying attention. First, the plate umpire should be verbally and vocally giving the count after the 3rd and 5th pitch. So 2-1/1-2/3-0 & 3-2 the plate um

Majordave
Majordave

Reasons NOT to use an indicator on the bases: 1.  College and professional baseball umpire training does not teach, advocate nor expect a base umpire to have an indicator on the bases.  2.  You may mi

lawump
lawump

If you want to look like an amateur umpire, carry an indicator (and/or a brush and/or wear a ball bag) on the bases.  If you want to be one step closer to looking like a professional umpire working am

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Dbellyflop

Dbellyflop

Posted
Posted

I use an indicator on the bases but I work only Little League games usually with teenagers so I want to make sure I have the count too. When I work with adults who are more reliable I leave it in the gear bag. 

LittleBlue

LittleBlue

Posted
Posted

I always have an indicator on me on the bases. If I'm working with someone who I know doesn't mess up their count easily (most partners), I usually use it for outs only, but there are a few people I've worked with who I know forget to add a ball or strike on say a steal or wild pitch and then I'll use it to keep track of everything. I also personally feel that when on the bases if I keep the count in my head I can respond to fielders better because, even if I know that count is 2-1, I look at my indicator before answering the fielder. I guess it's a personal preference, but to me it feels better to signal safes and call time/foul without something in my left hand 

ricka56

ricka56

Posted
Posted

If you're gonna bring an indicator on the bases and you have a partner like Troy, you need to be able to effectively palm it so that he doesn't realize that you have it.

ElkOil

ElkOil

Posted
Posted

It is expected in my association.  Each BU keeps count along with the PU.  I don't know why anybody would have an issue with it.  It's harmless and may be a real help.

kylehutson

kylehutson

Posted
Posted

I like to have one with me when I'm BU, but I also know it really bothers some other umpires. I always ask in pre-game if they mind. If they do, it stays in the equipment bag - no skin off my nose.

BuckeyeMike

BuckeyeMike

Posted
Posted

I think the trepidation comes in with guys who are "in their indicator" while on the bases.  If you can effectively keep a count or even just outs with the indicator in your pocket, without constantly taking it out and looking at it, you're not going to get much flack.   It's a perception thing.

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BillKen

BillKen

Posted
Posted

IMHO, the BU owns the calls at 1B and most at 2B and 3B...and PU owns the count.  Nothing good can come of two umpires with different counts except a fun story on the ejection thread.  For two years I've left my indicator in my bag when I work bases and amazingly enough, I generally always know the count now.  Not having that crutch considerably increases my concentration and keeps me much more in tune with the game.  Plus, how can they argue with "I've got what he has coach."  Now it is his and he owns it 100%...they can't play you against him.  Those sandwiches taste awful!  If PU loses the count, he can go to the book or go with what he has.

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Majordave

Majordave

Posted
Posted

Reasons NOT to use an indicator on the bases:

1.  College and professional baseball umpire training does not teach, advocate nor expect a base umpire to have an indicator on the bases. 

2.  You may miss a balk or a pickoff due to messing with your "clicker". Recent example: I worked a HS JV tourney game the other day with an old man, 75 at least, who was obsessed with his indicator and with brushing off the bases after plays and brushing off the pitcher's plate between innings. One inning he interrupted the pitcher during warmup pitches to brush the pitcher's plate off. Unbelievable!  He also missed a balk due to looking at his GD indicator.  I got it but it was really his call standing in C position.  Guy was a pure smitty.  Got every close call on the bases wrong.  Embarrassing to be on the field with him.   

Those are two very good reasons why you should NOT be using one on the bases. The count belongs to the Plate Umpire. It's his doodoo sandwich to eat if he messes it up.

my .02. Do what you want.   I hope you don't plan on moving up. Lots more important things for a base umpire to do than keep the count. 

  • Like 8
Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

Reasons NOT to use an indicator on the bases:

1.  College and professional baseball umpire training does not teach, advocate nor expect a base umpire to have an indicator on the bases. 

2.  You may miss a balk or a pickoff due to messing with your "clicker". Recent example: I worked a HS JV tourney game the other day with an old man, 75 at least, who was obsessed with his indicator and with brushing off the bases after plays and brushing off the pitcher's plate between innings. One inning he interrupted the pitcher during warmup pitches to brush the pitcher's plate off. Unbelievable!  He also missed a balk due to looking at his GD indicator.  I got it but it was really his call standing in C position.  Guy was a pure smitty.  Got every close call on the bases wrong.  Embarrassing to be on the field with him.   

Those are two very good reasons why you should NOT be using one on the bases. The count belongs to the Plate Umpire. It's his doodoo sandwich to eat if he messes it up.

my .02. Do what you want.   I hope you don't plan on moving up. Lots more important things for a base umpire to do than keep the count. 

​I don't think he said he's GOING TO USE ONE on the bases, but just asked about protocol, yes?

maineump

maineump

Posted
Posted

Sometimes it is 'local protocol' to carry one on the bases. I don't usually carry one, unless asked - never have carried one in college games and most HS games I don't carry one. Not all scoreboard operators and plate guys are created equal.

If you do carry one, treat it like you do while working the plate - don't keep looking at it, be familiar enough with this tool to use it and not look at it, palm it properly and don't look down when resetting the count on a new batter. Stuff happens in between hitters and you need to keep your eye on the ball. Your primary responsibility is the runners.

 

  • Like 1
Majordave

Majordave

Posted
Posted

And I understand it's a local thing. I gave my reasons. He and everyone here is a big boy/girl (for the most part). Maineump has a good explanation but in my experiences the indicator will get you in way more trouble on the bases than it will help you. He wanted advice and opinions. I offered what I've been taught and experienced personally as my opinion. 

  • Like 2
berns_97

berns_97

Posted
Posted

Required to keep count but only by memory. The BU should keep his clicker in his ball bag along with his Skittles and water.  

No no no.... Not clicker, INDICATOR

berns_97

berns_97

Posted
Posted

Ive always been told that BU never carries an indicator, its the PU job not BU

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

Required to keep count but only by memory. The BU should keep his clicker in his ball bag along with his Skittles and water.  

No no no.... Not clicker, INDICATOR

​he was joking ......... UmpTTS43 knows that it's called ....

  • Like 1
UmpJeff

UmpJeff

Posted
Posted

I never take an indicator on the diamond when I'm working the bases.  And, when I work the plate, I tell my partner he doesn't need to take an indicator onto the diamond, too. Keeping the count is the PUs responsibility.  

ricka56

ricka56

Posted
Posted (edited)

Reasons NOT to use an indicator on the bases:

1.  College and professional baseball umpire training does not teach, advocate nor expect a base umpire to have an indicator on the bases. 

2.  You may miss a balk or a pickoff due to messing with your "clicker". Recent example: I worked a HS JV tourney game the other day with an old man, 75 at least, who was obsessed with his indicator and with brushing off the bases after plays and brushing off the pitcher's plate between innings. One inning he interrupted the pitcher during warmup pitches to brush the pitcher's plate off. Unbelievable!  He also missed a balk due to looking at his GD indicator.  I got it but it was really his call standing in C position.  Guy was a pure smitty.  Got every close call on the bases wrong.  Embarrassing to be on the field with him.   

Those are two very good reasons why you should NOT be using one on the bases. The count belongs to the Plate Umpire. It's his doodoo sandwich to eat if he messes it up.

my .02. Do what you want.   I hope you don't plan on moving up. Lots more important things for a base umpire to do than keep the count. 

​So your reasoning to not carry an indicator on the bases is that they don't carry one in 3/4-man systems and the worst umpire in the world can't keep his eyes off his indicator as an examples of why everyone should not use an indicator on the bases ? How about giving us a sound mechanical reason why we shouldn't. I think the only reason you shouldn't use an indicator on the bases is if you have to look at it during a live ball situation. I have notched mine and don't ever put my eyes on it, even when I'm on the dish (and I can chew gum and walk at the same time).

I think not carrying an indicator on the bases is an old/outdated concept and the reasons for it are no longer valid. The indicator is a tool, use it where you think its appropriate.

Edited by ricka56
  • Like 5
Mick

Mick

Posted
Posted

The count is the PU's responsibility, but we're a team and need to back each other in every situation that's possible.  Keeping the count in the brain doesn't work for me.... too many things leak out all the time.  I use an indicator, but very selectively, with brief glances at safe times.

 

LMSANS

LMSANS

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have never heard the question come up in this area.  All umpires have, and use, an indicator.  Just like any other tool, there is a proper way to use it.

A few years ago, I did a few college wood bat summer league without one on the bases and had no problem.  I prefer to have it with me.  I don't look at it unless questioned on the count and I have figured out how to give safe/out signals with it in my hand.:rolleyes:

This past weekend, I had 2 partners screw up the count and have to come to me.  Not bad umpires, just got lost in the situation.  Both times they gave the count they had and then a coach or F2 questioned them on it.  They came to me and I gave them what I had on my indicator.

It's a tool, use it properly.

Now someone can ask what color shirt do you where on night games on Tuesday.  Another great discussion.:unsure:

Edited by LMSANS
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