Never work with or for this guy again

[Mike Prince]

Sounds like the players know that they can act this way since the assn. is against EJ's.  Wonder what the BU would have done if you had run the player (and yes that's what I would have done).

 

Take care of business on the field if you know the EJ is justified, submit a good EJ report and worry about the politics later.

[BigUmpire]

Sounds like the players know that they can act this way since the assn. is against EJ's.  Wonder what the BU would have done if you had run the player (and yes that's what I would have done).

Exactly!

 

Take care of business on the field if you know the EJ is justified, submit a good EJ report and worry about the politics later.

[guitarplaya2007]

I agree, I should've run the kids on the spot, and i'm not a "young guy" as some may think, I've just always gone with what my supervisors say they want. If they want me to call balls and strikes standing on my head I will do my damndest to do it and do it well. That is how you advance in a group, you do what you are told to do and handle things the way you were told to. Thing of it is when what you are told to do is obviously not in the best interest of game management and it is only what you are told to do should it really be done? My answer after this whole situation is NO! This situation has made me sick to my stomach, because not only do I now know that my association president does not have my back when I screw up, which we all do, but I know how gutless he is ultimately. I spoke with our assigner, who is not the association president, about this whole situation, he agrees with me that my president should have run him, but he also agrees i could have dumped him way earlier. I told him why and he sympathized, apparently this policy was put into effect by our president and everybody else on the board went along with it because he is the president, blind obedience is never a good thing. Hopefully this opens his eyes as to why we should eject in situations like these and not simply turn the other cheek. My best guess is that he wont see it. I apologize to all of my umpiring brethren for not standing for what I knew was right in this situation and just going with what I was told to do, because I did an injustice to the game of baseball for allowing this to go on without taking care of the situation right away. This will never happen again. I remember what Joe West told us at umpire school and this is really hitting home with me right now, "Our first duty is to the game of baseball, our second is to the league, and our third is to our careers" I didn't fully understand that until just now, we should do what is best for the game of baseball in every situation and then consider what is best for the league and our careers, but our priority is what is best for the game of baseball.

[Mike Prince]

Most importantly, don't beat yourself up about it.  Just like a kicked call that decides a game, you'll move past this.  It sucks when you know you have no backing.

 

If you have more games left with this assn, do what makes sense from here on out - if you are leaving soon, who cares if they have your back or not (note:  not advocating going all Bob Davidson/redass on anyone, just doing the right thing if a situation gets to that point).

[mstaylor]

You may want to go with choice four. Stick around, take care of business and change the group from within. If the board doesn't wholeheartedly agree, you stand a chance of things changing. Then you are doing what is best for the game

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[MidAmUmp]

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I kind of gather you're pissed because your partner didn't dump a player who you could/should have dumped.  I've been on both sides of this (as I'm sure most of us have).  Nothing would piss me off more than to have a run in with a coach and then see him down there buddy, buddy with my partner.  I've also been on the other side of being the "sounding board" for a pissed off coach or player.

 

Obviously I wasn't there but based on what you've described, I can tell you I probably wouldn't have dumped the player for talking about you.  What I would have done is put him in his place.  I would have told him that I haven't said one bad thing about one of his teammates today and he's not going to be badmouthing one of my teammates either.  I would then tell him in no uncertain terms that if he said anything like that again I'd run him, then confirm that he understands what I just told him.

 

Here's why - You had ample opportunity and were justified in ejecting the player.  The kid comes out and pops off to your partner about you and he immediately gets ejected.  What does that look like?  1) your partner is a red ass & 2) you can be walked on.  By doing what I would have done I would have made the kid understand we're a team, too.  I have your back and he's not going to run his mouth about you and if he does he's going to be ejected.  I bet the kid would have kept his mouth shut the rest of the game.

[benjix4]

Your long post could have been channeled down to just a few sentences on how to handle players who argue balls and strikes.  They don't have that luxury.  Those are all judgement calls that are neither up for discussion or to be debated.  Immediate ejection and your problem is solved.  That is to much drama for a baseball game. 

[guitarplaya2007]

thanks everyone for your input, i've moved on from this situation, learned from my mistakes and I can assure you those wont be happening again. Like what was said at umpire school, the ejections you miss will make you sick, but you wont miss the same one again. Thing is i'm not new to this, I've handled these situations before anin my opinion I've handled them well before, not to toot my own horn. For whatever reason on this day I decided not to eject, it was the wrong decision, I tried things their way and they don't work, so from now on I will handle them the way I always have and put up with the reprocussions.

[MPLSMatt]

Guitarplaya, please don't take any of this personally.  Most people on this board have had situations similar to this and it is what it is...  The other thing that I might mention is that a couple of your actions could be construed as smart assed or baiting (although I'm sure that's not how you mean them), which could hurt you if you toss someone.
 

1) The "nothing to see back here" comment is OK for a first instance of a guy glaring at you mid-count, but when you had the guy staring you down on the way to the dugout you may have wanted to be stronger - "back to your dugout, now!" Given your situation, the glaring thing is VERY DIFFICULT because if you toss him for it you have to write an EJ report that says "he glared at me" and of course B1 and his coach will deny it.  At least with "back to your dugout" you've given him a warning of sorts.  I'm just not sure that "nothing to see back here" does that.  

 

2) The ball being thrown at you is tough too, because how can you be 100% sure that he didn't think someone was looking (ask your partner maybe???). I think you handled it right by warning him loudly and prominently, but wouldn't have kicked the ball back to him.  It just makes it look like you are being as petulant as he is (even though you aren't - it just looks bad).  

 

Finally, given the fact that these things built up over time, you may have had a chance to talk to their coach about it between innings.  "Bill, this garbage is getting out of hand.  I'm working hard out here and I'm not going to get glared at or disrespected.   Please remind your guys of that and consider this their warning."  Some people may disagree with this, but I've used this twice in bad situations and both times the coach has gone over and laid into their teams and kept people in the game.  Also, if you have to toss someone, this is yet another warning that you can put in your EJ report. 

 

As others have said, don't let this eat at you. I just thought I'd offer a couple of things that have worked for me.

[JaxRolo]

Yes we will ALL miss calls. Not handle a situation properly at times. Make a poor decision. ETC, ETC, ETC.

 

We just try not to let it happen again.

 

Even the one member (use that term loosely) on here that is mr perfect will miss something. Not mentioning a name but you know who you are.

[Aging_Arbiter]

And what we have here ladies & gentlemen, is a perfect example of an NFHS  "Teachable Moment"

[guitarplaya2007]

Guitarplaya, please don't take any of this personally.  Most people on this board have had situations similar to this and it is what it is...  The other thing that I might mention is that a couple of your actions could be construed as smart assed or baiting (although I'm sure that's not how you mean them), which could hurt you if you toss someone.

 

1) The "nothing to see back here" comment is OK for a first instance of a guy glaring at you mid-count, but when you had the guy staring you down on the way to the dugout you may have wanted to be stronger - "back to your dugout, now!" Given your situation, the glaring thing is VERY DIFFICULT because if you toss him for it you have to write an EJ report that says "he glared at me" and of course B1 and his coach will deny it.  At least with "back to your dugout" you've given him a warning of sorts.  I'm just not sure that "nothing to see back here" does that.  

 

2) The ball being thrown at you is tough too, because how can you be 100% sure that he didn't think someone was looking (ask your partner maybe???). I think you handled it right by warning him loudly and prominently, but wouldn't have kicked the ball back to him.  It just makes it look like you are being as petulant as he is (even though you aren't - it just looks bad).  

 

Finally, given the fact that these things built up over time, you may have had a chance to talk to their coach about it between innings.  "Bill, this garbage is getting out of hand.  I'm working hard out here and I'm not going to get glared at or disrespected.   Please remind your guys of that and consider this their warning."  Some people may disagree with this, but I've used this twice in bad situations and both times the coach has gone over and laid into their teams and kept people in the game.  Also, if you have to toss someone, this is yet another warning that you can put in your EJ report. 

 

As others have said, don't let this eat at you. I just thought I'd offer a couple of things that have worked for me.

thanks for the input, Steve wouldn't of had anything to do with me if I called him over to chat between innings though, he's not the kind of guy that's going to take an umpires warning seriously, I've worked with him before and he is just "that guy". I hate to sound pessimistic here but that's just the guy he is. But yes I probably should have said something else rather than I told you there was nothing to see back here when he glared at me going back to the dugout but at the time I felt that was the best thing to say. Like I said before though I've learned and will not handle these situations like that again. This game just seemed to be the perfect storm for situations and my head just wasn't in it...

[MidAmUmp]

@guitarplaya2007 - Every game is a learning situation.  Learn from what you feel you didn't handle well in that game and it won't happen again.  If we all did everything correctly every game, we'd all have MLB logos on our hat and they wouldn't be using replay.

[bam]

Your long post could have been channeled down to just a few sentences on how to handle players who argue balls and strikes.  They don't have that luxury.  Those are all judgement calls that are neither up for discussion or to be debated.  Immediate ejection and your problem is solved.  That is to much drama for a baseball game. 

I would also add that a couple punctuation marks would have helped....

[VAUmp]

I bet your partner had no idea what you were doing to handle this stuff.  Imagine him standing 100 feet away watching all of this go on with you just taking it, talking back to the players, throwing balls at the dugout, etc...  If I was out there I would be dumbfounded about your approach.  As for him not throwing them out, after watching you ignore a half dozen eject-able offenses, what is he to do?