Did I get this one right? Two Ejections

[APUmpire]

I'm still a young umpire. I was working a 15U game.

I called B1 out on strikes. The pitch was most certainly a strike. It's the protoypical pitch where the kid ducks, and the breaking ball breaks right over the top for a strike. B1 proceeds to then say "Are you [bleeping] kidding me?" in response to the call; not very loudly. I did not eject him then.

I proceeded to walk towards the opposing dugout to retrieve some new baseballs. I saw him then throw the bat in the direction of the dugout. At this point, I proceeded to eject the player.

Then, the coach of the ejected player's team comes over and asks me what he said. He seems to be calm with the explanation in which he was given. The assistant coach gets involved, and starts screaming, "What did he say?" ... And I proceed with, "I'm not going to repeat it, and I have informed the head coach, and should he choose to tell you, that is his prerogative" ... And he continues to repeat himself in a derogatory manner, to the point in which I tell him that if he continues this conversation that he will be ejected, and he stated "I just want to know what he said!" ... I ejected him, as well.

[Replacematt]

In the end, you got it right.

Assistant coaches get a short leash. You should not engage with a belligerent assistant, nor placate him. If he opens his mouth, as in your situation: "What did he say," simply shut him down. Tell him to knock it off. If he continues in any way, dump him. He had his chance to behave. It is not your job to explain the HC/AC role to him; in fact, some crafty teams will exploit that.

As for the batter, if a youth player directs profanity at you, you are generally going to need to toss him. You may find a time or two where it is understandable, but balls and strikes will not be one of those times.

I think for both of these people, you should have tossed earlier.

[Dannytheman]

This whole thing looks good to me.

Assistants get much less rope. I'm sure they don't understand that, as I have tossed many more of them then HCs.

[Cajunyankee]

I agree with tossing the kid, but not with when you tossed him.

A 15U kid directs '"Are you [bleeping] kidding me?' at me, he's done.....immediately.

No coach worth his bucket will argue either.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Although I think you should have given the batter the hook immediately upon the expletive, I applaud you for the ejection of the ass.coach, and totally agree that the batter had to go after throwing equipment in reaction to your strike call.

[BRUMP]

batter- not quick enough...the f bomb is definitly cause to go

ass coach- i think you timed it just right

[Guest]

1) I would've left your explanation to the ac to just "I've already explained it to your manager." the last pArt just comes off wrong no matter how you slice it, especially since you are a young umpire.

2) they can bring baseballs to you. Either have them throw them to f2 or have them sent up with an approaching batter.

3) how the hell do you people use iPhones? My computer can come back from it's tune up any day now so I can stop posting via PITA iPod.

[moblue]

My thoughts on the ejections overall, taking your level of experience into account: Excellent. You gave the player a chance to stay in the game, and he didn't appreciate it. Just for future reference though, I agree that the batter should have been tossed after a swear word directed at you. Also, while the "additional information" you gave the AC was not necessary, I think it's great, especially if you used those exact words to him. I was told at JEAPU to not use big words in an argument (in your case "perogative"), but I disagree with that line of thinking. If a coach cannot understand what you are saying because you are using words too big for him, he cannot create an effective rebuttal. It also makes you sound smarter, thus potentially enhancing your credibility.

[Replacematt]

You gave the player a chance to stay in the game, and he didn't appreciate it.

If you don't toss on what he said, you've just made it non-ejectable. Every batter can do that now, because you can't toss anyone for it without being unfair.

I was told at JEAPU to not use big words in an argument (in your case "perogative"), but I disagree with that line of thinking. If a coach cannot understand what you are saying because you are using words too big for him, he cannot create an effective rebuttal. It also makes you sound smarter, thus potentially enhancing your credibility.

You honestly think this?

[bam]

EJ the player immediately.

Tell the HC to take care of chucklehead AC. If said chucklehead says another word, give him the gate.

[moblue]

You gave the player a chance to stay in the game, and he didn't appreciate it.

If you don't toss on what he said, you've just made it non-ejectable. Every batter can do that now, because you can't toss anyone for it without being unfair.

I was told at JEAPU to not use big words in an argument (in your case "perogative"), but I disagree with that line of thinking. If a coach cannot understand what you are saying because you are using words too big for him, he cannot create an effective rebuttal. It also makes you sound smarter, thus potentially enhancing your credibility.

You honestly think this?

I agree the batter should have been ejected for what he said at the plate. I was simply trying to put a positive twist on the mistake. He gave the batter a chance to stay, but the batter kept up his behavior and got tossed.

As to my thoughts on using big words when a coach comes out to argue, yes, that is really what I think. If you can only think of larger words right away to put in a sentence, that's fine by me. It isn't the umpire's fault if the coach isn't smart enough to understand. Granted there is a line that shouldn't be crossed with that. I don't think you should study a dictionary every night just to be able to use big words. However, words such as "perogative" are not so over the top that you shouldn't be using them. Having a good command of the English language can be an asset in nearly every part of life.

If you are questioning whether I believe the last sentence of the post, then notice the way I worded it. "It makes you sound smarter" Yes, using big words makes you sound smarter. "thus potentially enhancing your credibility" This doesn't apply to every coach, but if you were having a discussion regarding a call you were already right about, your credibility could possibly be enhanced. Not everyone will agree, that's fine. It's just my opinion on the matter.

[Replacematt]

You gave the player a chance to stay in the game, and he didn't appreciate it.

If you don't toss on what he said, you've just made it non-ejectable. Every batter can do that now, because you can't toss anyone for it without being unfair.

I was told at JEAPU to not use big words in an argument (in your case "perogative"), but I disagree with that line of thinking. If a coach cannot understand what you are saying because you are using words too big for him, he cannot create an effective rebuttal. It also makes you sound smarter, thus potentially enhancing your credibility.

You honestly think this?

I agree the batter should have been ejected for what he said at the plate. I was simply trying to put a positive twist on the mistake. He gave the batter a chance to stay, but the batter kept up his behavior and got tossed.

As to my thoughts on using big words when a coach comes out to argue, yes, that is really what I think. If you can only think of larger words right away to put in a sentence, that's fine by me. It isn't the umpire's fault if the coach isn't smart enough to understand. Granted there is a line that shouldn't be crossed with that. I don't think you should study a dictionary every night just to be able to use big words. However, words such as "perogative" are not so over the top that you shouldn't be using them. Having a good command of the English language can be an asset in nearly every part of life.

If you are questioning whether I believe the last sentence of the post, then notice the way I worded it. "It makes you sound smarter" Yes, using big words makes you sound smarter. "thus potentially enhancing your credibility" This doesn't apply to every coach, but if you were having a discussion regarding a call you were already right about, your credibility could possibly be enhanced. Not everyone will agree, that's fine. It's just my opinion on the matter.

One of the things that always gets me is when someone says, "I was taught this at pro school, but I don't agree with it..." Yes, things do change from time to time and what is taught sometimes is found not to be the best, but people need to realize that there is a reason things are taught the way they are.

There are two reasons to use common terminology and conciseness in speaking with a coach: It makes sure that what you have to say is understood. Miscommunication leads to escalation of arguments. It also ensures that you do not talk yourself into a trap from which you cannot escape. The more you say, the more that can be held against you.

Big words, to put it bluntly, are going to give coaches the opinion that you are a pretentious smartass, and they will look for any way to take that ten-dollar word you use and shove it up your ass.

[moblue]

Big words, to put it bluntly, are going to give coaches the opinion that you are a pretentious smartass, and they will look for any way to take that ten-dollar word you use and shove it up your ass.

Coaches very well might think that about me, but I didn't show up to the game to make friends. If they are smart enough to throw that word back at me (used correctly) fine. If not, they are the one that ends up looking like an idiot.

That said, I can't say that I use big words in arguments much. I don't think on my feet quite like that. It looks like we will have to agree to disagree on this subject, but I understand your point of view.

[mstaylor]

I don't have a problem with using a decent vocabulary if you have one. Many things taught in pro school don't work at our levels. It is no different than they call different balks than we do. Different games require different methods.

[TT49]

My thoughts on the ejections overall, taking your level of experience into account: Excellent. You gave the player a chance to stay in the game, and he didn't appreciate it. Just for future reference though, I agree that the batter should have been tossed after a swear word directed at you. Also, while the "additional information" you gave the AC was not necessary, I think it's great, especially if you used those exact words to him. I was told at JEAPU to not use big words in an argument (in your case "perogative"), but I disagree with that line of thinking. If a coach cannot understand what you are saying because you are using words too big for him, he cannot create an effective rebuttal. It also makes you sound smarter, thus potentially enhancing your credibility.

In my humble opinion, it is not a good idea to use big words in an argument. For 3 reasons. 1) It can give the impression that you are some stuck up prat (compounded by the fact that you are younger). 2) While using said big words you can become tongue-tied and sound stupid. 3) You are conveying a message, simple is better

Remember KISS - Keep it Simple Stupid

Cheers

[Jocko]

Take into consideration the level of ball and probable education of the HC. HS+, you know the coach is educated and less likely to be intimidated by your word choice. Lower level ball, you may come off as pretentious snd HC may feel you are insulting him by attempting to speak at him instead of to him. There are variables in everything in baseball. Read the play and make adjustments on said read, therefore putting yourself in the best possible position to make the call/argument, as the case may be. Sometimes it can be inappropriate to speak like a literary wizard. Will come off as pontificating instead of informative.

That being said, I'm proud of the fact that I am an avid reader with a firm hold on the English language. Just don't look like an asshole because of it. Education doesn't make you better or smarter than anyone, just more educated.

[th3]

nobody really considers "perogative" a big word right?

then again, i did have to look up "fulcrum" the other day

[Magic]

I don't give players or assistants much leash at all. I had a kid yesterday look away from on a Strike 2. And he said Are you kidding? That was outside. Very quietly. No profanity. I looked at him and said Don't do that again or you will not be around long. He appologized right away. Next pitch he hits a double. Coach comes up to me inbetween innings and thanked me.

[Guest]

I don't give players or assistants much leash at all. I had a kid yesterday look away from on a Strike 2. And he said Are you kidding? That was outside. Very quietly. No profanity. I looked at him and said Don't do that again or you will not be around long. He appologized right away. Next pitch he hits a double. Coach comes up to me inbetween innings and thanked me.

IMO barring any previous incidents with this individual or their team, this was too strong of a reaction to the situation.

[BRUMP]

I don't give players or assistants much leash at all. I had a kid yesterday look away from on a Strike 2. And he said Are you kidding? That was outside. Very quietly. No profanity. I looked at him and said Don't do that again or you will not be around long. He appologized right away. Next pitch he hits a double. Coach comes up to me inbetween innings and thanked me.

If he doesn't look at you I say leave it alone. If he turns around and says it keep your mask on but give him a stern that's enough.

[Magic]

Too many times that comes back to bit you in the Arse. You let one kid do it and the next kid thinks he can. When you are umpiring High School Winter Ball games that aren't being coached by the

High School coaches, the games can get out of hand in a hurry. High School Varsity games? I let that go. But out here doing a put together Winter Ball team? Nope. Not going to let it escalate. That is just me. And in the last 6 years I have only had one ejection in a game and it was a Malicious contact.

[BRUMP]

Too many times that comes back to bit you in the Arse. You let one kid do it and the next kid thinks he can. When you are umpiring High School Winter Ball games that aren't being coached by the

High School coaches, the games can get out of hand in a hurry. High School Varsity games? I let that go. But out here doing a put together Winter Ball team? Nope. Not going to let it escalate. That is just me. And in the last 6 years I have only had one ejection in a game and it was a Malicious contact.

This was taught to me by a senior umpire and I think I've seen it listed here. If there's chirping about the zone it should be ignore, warn, eject. Obviously some things (line in the dirt, profanity) will require the elimination of steps 1 and 2 but for stuff like what you said I think this is a good rule of thumb.

[Magic]

So then if I skip the ignore and I warn and never have to eject is this bad? I agree with you on the ignore, warn, eject method when I am dealing with teams, where the coaches have control of the players. And maybe I should adopt your philosophy for all games. But I don't tend to have problems when I warn a kid early that we aren't going to talk about the strike zone. The kid gets the message and seems to tell the other kids as well.

[BRUMP]

So then if I skip the ignore and I warn and never have to eject is this bad? I agree with you on the ignore, warn, eject method when I am dealing with teams, where the coaches have control of the players. And maybe I should adopt your philosophy for all games. But I don't tend to have problems when I warn a kid early that we aren't going to talk about the strike zone. The kid gets the message and seems to tell the other kids as well.

If you can warn and not have to eject than that can work well. Game management is not a one size fits all. There is not one way to do it. I was just sharing how I try and do it.