Help settle a debate between partners

[Jocko]

R3, RHP comes set. As he raises his left foot to pick, R3 breaks for home. No throw to F5. Without disengaging, F1 picks up his left foot, steps and throws to F2. Balk or Legal?

[Jocko]

F1 originally stepped to 3B. His left foot landed. He picked it back up and stepped to home. All without disengaging.

[KLAH316]

F1 originally stepped to 3B. His left foot landed. He picked it back up and stepped to home. All without disengaging.

Legal on the no-throw to 3rd....

I think it's a HTBT on the throw home.

[JamesC]

I would say legal in FED, as he does not have to throw to third on a pickoff attempt. His move alone should be considered a disengage.

[noumpere]

He doesn't have to throw to third in other codes either, and its not considered a disengage in any code.

Its a variation on the 3-1 move play and in that play its legal in HS and a balk in college and pro (because of leaving the pivot foot on the rubber).

[UmpTTS43]

Balk in all codes. Since he delivered the ball while in contact with the rubber, it is a pitch. I would classify this as a start stop balk.

[noumpere]

I realize in my previous post I didnt answer the original play and was just addressing JamesCs comment and how it applied to a simialr play and move.. I agree its a balk. Sorry for any confusion.

[mstaylor]

It's an interesting question in HS. I understand that he doesn't have to disengage before going to another base, home gets sticky. Is it a pitch or a throw to a base? If it is a throw to a base would you call interference on a swing by the batter.

[Jocko]

It's an interesting question in HS. I understand that he doesn't have to disengage before going to another base, home gets sticky. Is it a pitch or a throw to a base? If it is a throw to a base would you call interference on a swing by the batter.

thankfully this didn't happen, but we discussed what if after the game. HP says he thinks it would have been BI if no balk was called. BU says it's a balk all day. Neither can find a ruling in the books definitively settling the balk. F1 came set, feint to 3b, throw (pitch?) to F2. Sticky. Fed Case Book says feint to 3b throw to 1b without disengaging is legal. That muddies up the water. HP says the step to 3b makes him legal to throw anywhere without disengaging. BU says its balk no question.

[MPLSMatt]

Very interesting debate. Someone want to forward this to the national rules person? I can't see any reason why the 3rd to 1st is a disengage (without disengaging) but a 3rd to home isn't. What if it were 3rd to 2nd with runners on 1 and 3? I do almost all FED rules and I've always considered a feint to be a disengage regardless of whether the pivot acutally leaves the rubber (based on the 3-1 rule) but I could certainly be wrong.

[noumpere]

Its not a disengage thats why the pitcher has to throw to first in the case play. if the pitcher feints to third doesnt disengage and then feints to first, its a balk.

[JaxRolo]

Can someone cite the rule in FED where a Pitcher can feint to a base and without disengaging throw to another base?

I did a search but came up empty.

[MPLSMatt]

Wow, I totally got this wrong. Jax, here's one caseplay (there is another too). Using this rule, it's gotta be a balk.

6.2.4 SITUATION C

With R1 on third and R2 on first, F1 comes set. He then feints toward third, or he removes one hand from the ball and makes an arm motion toward third but does not step toward third. He follows with a throw to first base.

RULING: This is a balk. F1 must step toward third base when feinting there. F1 may not feint to first base. He must step toward the base and throw. He might, while he is on the plate, step toward occupied third and feint a throw, and then turn to step toward first and throw there with or without disengaging the pitcher's plate. If F1 steps and feints to first, he must first disengage the pitcher's plate or he is guilty of a balk.

Dumb question here but can someone help me with a desingage question since a feign is not a disengage: If a pitcher feigns to a base and removes his pivot foot with either his follow through or to chase a runner back to a base, do we have a balk? Generally he must step over the back of the mound and he wouldn't be doing that in this situation. He'd just be pulling his foot off the mound in the follow through.

[noumpere]

Dumb question here but can someone help me with a desingage question since a feign is not a disengage: If a pitcher feigns to a base and removes his pivot foot with either his follow through or to chase a runner back to a base, do we have a balk? .

No we do not have a balk and this is what happens almost all the time on the third to first move.

[MPLSMatt]

Thanks, Noumpere. Any citation/justification? My question is, if you have a guy who steps to the side of the mound from a pitching position, (either the set or a windup), this isn't a legal way to disengage. For example, to feign to first, you need to step behind the mound. Why is it legal after a feign? (I'm not trying to be an ass, just looking for the reasoning). Thanks for your help.

[noumpere]

Thanks, Noumpere. Any citation/justification? My question is, if you have a guy who steps to the side of the mound from a pitching position, (either the set or a windup), this isn't a legal way to disengage. For example, to feign to first, you need to step behind the mound. Why is it legal after a feign? (I'm not trying to be an ass, just looking for the reasoning). Thanks for your help.

Im very confused by the question but a pitcher can do three things: pitch, disengage, step and throw or feint (but not to first) to a base. A disengage is stepping back with the pivot foot. THe step to the base is with the free foot and 99.999 percent of the time the pitcher will remove his pivot foot from the rubber as part of this. After any of these the pitcher is not a pitcher any more, hes an infielder.

Now, further clarification has said that if the pitcher steps and feints to a base but stays on the rubber and then immediately steps again with the picto foot toward first, this is illegal in pro but legal in HS as long as he throws and doesn't feint to the first.

[Jocko]

Thanks, Noumpere. Any citation/justification? My question is, if you have a guy who steps to the side of the mound from a pitching position, (either the set or a windup), this isn't a legal way to disengage. For example, to feign to first, you need to step behind the mound. Why is it legal after a feign? (I'm not trying to be an ass, just looking for the reasoning). Thanks for your help.

Im very confused by the question but a pitcher can do three things: pitch, disengage, step and throw or feint (but not to first) to a base. A disengage is stepping back with the pivot foot. THe step to the base is with the free foot and 99.999 percent of the time the pitcher will remove his pivot foot from the rubber as part of this. After any of these the pitcher is not a pitcher any more, hes an infielder.

Now, further clarification has said that if the pitcher steps and feints to a base but stays on the rubber and then immediately steps again with the picto foot toward first, this is illegal in pro but legal in HS as long as he throws and doesn't feint to the first.

Exactly my point. Here inlies the question. Is it a balk if he feints to 3b and without disengaging throws to F2