PU Balls and Strikes

[834k3r]

6 minutes ago, Velho said:

You all got me. Finally ordered one.

Related gem I found while ordering

So many comments in my head, but none of them would translate well online.

[grayhawk]

51 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

So many comments in my head, but none of them would translate well online.

Well, if you order one of those, then you better be ordering the Hands Free Umpire right along with it.

[grayhawk]

1 hour ago, 834k3r said:

Same. I've hardly looked at my indicator during a game since I moved to the AS. Added benefit is it won't break, and you can take it apart for periodic maintenance and/or lubrication (just don't use graphite--as me how I know).

I will say the only downside is the glare from the sun off the metal. I've taken a wire brush to mine (it's helped) and it's still pretty bright when working a sunny game.

Pro tip: Paint the wheels with a florescent yellow to give them better visibility. I also took a wire brush to mine to reduce the glare. It does help.

[BigBlue4u]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:19 PM, Biscuit said:

I will say, working without an indicator feels good. Not something I'd do, but it does feel good. If you ckuks guarantee that my score board operator would never make a mistake, I would go sans indicator in a heart beat. 

If I recall correctly, the late Steve Palermo was one of the first umpires not to use an indicator.  When asked about it, his usual reply was, "Why use an indicator when they have million-dollar scoreboards."  What is left unsaid is, "And you better hope the scoreboard operator never makes a mistake."

[The Man in Blue]

9 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Pro tip: Paint the wheels with a florescent yellow to give them better visibility. I also took a wire brush to mine to reduce the glare. It does help.

 

Love you @grayhawk, but that is the exact opposite of a pro tip.  A "pro" never looks at it in the first place.  It isn't the glare when looking at it, it's just random glare at other times (e.g., when giving the count and you are raising your hands or holding them up).

My daughter had a bunch of silicon covers for her old insulin pumps . . . I've been kicking around the idea of cutting them up and developing a cover for it.  Figure that would also make it more comfortable to hold for long tournament days.

[The Man in Blue]

10 hours ago, 834k3r said:

So many comments in my head, but none of them would translate well online.

 

I was going to go with, "find another guy and we can split the "3 for the price of 2" offer."  (No, not really, but umpires seem to be some of the cheapest, stingiest buggers out there.)

[grayhawk]

25 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Love you @grayhawk, but that is the exact opposite of a pro tip.  A "pro" never looks at it in the first place.  It isn't the glare when looking at it, it's just random glare at other times (e.g., when giving the count and you are raising your hands or holding them up).

I would love to say I never look at it, but there are occasions when it's necessary. And for those times, making it pop really helps, especially when the lighting isn't great..

[Jimurray]

More power to those that don't need an indicator. But if you can't keep the count due to ADHD, Old Age, or how you concentrate, an indicator is a great tool used properly. The key is how to use it without it distracting you. MLB was not happy a few years ago with ball 3 walks and/or strike 3 stay at the plate. I believe they mandated use or possession of an indicator for PUs. Since then some MLB umps seem to not comply, probably for some vanity reason, that some of you have, that your brain doesn't need an indicator. And we still have missed counts in MLB. Some of you are correct and your brain doesn't need one. Some of us do. All airline pilots need a thing on the glareshield that we click and rotate to show the next altitude we are cleared to and a chime to tell us when we are close to it.

[The Man in Blue]

18 hours ago, grayhawk said:

I would love to say I never look at it, but there are occasions when it's necessary. And for those times, making it pop really helps, especially when the lighting isn't great..

“The indicator designed for blind umpires everywhere!”

🤣

[dumbdumb]

On 6/21/2024 at 11:54 PM, Jimurray said:

More power to those that don't need an indicator. But if you can't keep the count due to ADHD, Old Age, or how you concentrate, an indicator is a great tool used properly. The key is how to use it without it distracting you. MLB was not happy a few years ago with ball 3 walks and/or strike 3 stay at the plate. I believe they mandated use or possession of an indicator for PUs. Since then some MLB umps seem to not comply, probably for some vanity reason, that some of you have, that your brain doesn't need an indicator. And we still have missed counts in MLB. Some of you are correct and your brain doesn't need one. Some of us do. All airline pilots need a thing on the glareshield that we click and rotate to show the next altitude we are cleared to and a chime to tell us when we are close to it.

except with a case of ADHD and the 2 other conditions mentioned, you are still going to forget the count by forgetting to turn the indicator wheels sometimes, whether or not there is an intervening play at the plate, etc. or not. grown men have literally cried, when they had undiagnosed ADHD, and were finally diagnosed with ADHD, and put on a pharmaceutical.

they cried because they had such a hard time feeding, taking care of etc, their families much less feeding themselves, and now that they could focus and do other things, it was way too late for job promotions etc to make up for all they and their families had missed due to the financial situations they were in. everyone had to suffer at their expense for a non diagnosis in earlier years (probably just seen as rambunctious, etc.).

and anyone put on pretty much any type of drug was belittled and bullied, berated and yelled at, for driving up the cost of the health care system, especially from those who were perfectly healthy and many times were just the lucky recipient of a good gene pool.

so embarrassed yes, but the MLB guys do have a good chance of getting a miscount corrected with instant replay for proof, when many others have no replay to prove the number of pitches, and what they were, at their disposal.

[kylehutson]

On 6/19/2024 at 1:09 PM, The Man in Blue said:

For those “in the know” … it is an indi-clicker.

*Ahem* - that's indi-clicki-counter

[kylehutson]

Posted twice

Edited June 23 by kylehutson
Duplicate post

[kylehutson]

On 6/21/2024 at 10:35 AM, 834k3r said:

Same. I've hardly looked at my indicator during a game since I moved to the AS. Added benefit is it won't break, and you can take it apart for periodic maintenance and/or lubrication (just don't use graphite--as me how I know).

I will say the only downside is the glare from the sun off the metal. I've taken a wire brush to mine (it's helped) and it's still pretty bright when working a sunny game.

I took it apart, wire-brushed it, AND spray painted it with a black matte spray paint. Most of the black has worn off, but the remnants of the paint along with the wire-brush has made it quite usable in bright lights.

One of these days I'm going to follow through on my threat to made a 3D-printable replacement front cover for it.

I'm actually on my 2nd one - the internal metal piece on one of the dials broke. I took my old cover and put it on the new indicator to keep the reflections away. Like others have said, even if you don't look at it much, the reflections can sure surprise you if you're careless about it.

[kylehutson]

On 6/19/2024 at 2:09 AM, MadMax said:

I don’t use an indicator. I haven’t since 2014.

I tried this last week....accidentally. I was jawing with my partner before the game, got onto the field and realized I didn't put it in my pocket.

I made it through the game without losing the count, but it just added a level of stress to my game that didn't need to be there. Obviously, YMMV

[Velho]

30 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

I tried this last week....accidentally. I was jawing with my partner before the game, got onto the field and realized I didn't put it in my pocket.

I made it through the game without losing the count, but it just added a level of stress to my game that didn't need to be there. Obviously, YMMV

I think we can all agree PU should carry an indicator but ideally never look at it. To that end, what are the ways folks do that?

We've heard the AS notched indicator is a good one. I put up the count (but only verbal when needed) and repeat it in my mind as the F1 comes set. It's helping, I need to keep on it.

What other tips & tricks you all got?

Related, I had a few games lately as bases in 3 man w/ experienced partners (vs 2 man with inexperienced partner) since it's postseason. Plate wanted the other ump to have indicator so I used that as practice to keep mental count. It was good. Ended up helping me lock me in on the game itself.

[kylehutson]

28 minutes ago, Velho said:

I think we can all agree PU should carry an indicator but ideally never look at it. To that end, what are the ways folks do that?

I ended up doing what I do when I'm on the bases with no indicator. Between pitches, I would touch my thumb to the corresponding finger (index = 1, middle = 2, ring = 3, left hand for balls, right for strikes).

I had a scoreboard operator that was pretty accurate, and it was nice having that as a backup. LIke I do normally, if the board was off, I announced the count each pitch both with my fingers and by voice. Typically I give the count each pitch only visually and only verbalize if asked.

[834k3r]

1 hour ago, kylehutson said:

One of these days I'm going to follow through on my threat to made a 3D-printable replacement front cover for it.

I’ll be your first customer or wear tester!

[MadMax]

11 minutes ago, Velho said:

I think we can all agree PU should carry an indicator but ideally never look at it. To that end, what are the ways folks do that?

What other tips & tricks you all got?

Don’t use one, don’t own one. 
 

…. 

Look, in no way am I saying I’m better as a PU than anybody because I don’t use an indicator. To each their own. 

I rail against the compulsion. “You shall…  “, like it’s some sanctimonious qualifier  that anoints you to divinely and supremely better assignments – a “higher calling”, to pardon the pun . Because if that’s the case, I’ve seen plenty of “high level” umpires get the count wrong, or worse, many umpires of all levels missing half the game and situational awareness because they’re fixated on the wee widdle dials going clickety-click. And they’re still getting assignments juuuuuuussssst fiiiiiiiiine. 

It’s also one of those symbols of how shortsighted and ineffectual our (collective) education and training for umpiring – plate, specifically – is conducted. Grab an “umpire starter kit” with a cheap mask, a washboard or marshmallow CP, some rolled-up newspaper 🗞️ shinguards, an indicator, a pathetic plate brush, and a single ball bag that typically is sold in a garden center, and say, “Good luck! Don’t suck!” 
We’re training these guys wrong. We should … 🤔… huh. I just got hit with an idea. 
Pardon me, I need to hop off my soapbox 📦 and draw. 

[Velho]

7 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Don’t use one, don’t own one. 

[giffed with full humor]

 

How did you get to the point that you never lose the count?

 

[MadMax]

It’s amazing what your mind can do when you take the proverbial training wheels off. 

49 minutes ago, Velho said:

How did you get to the point that you never lose the count?

I never said I don’t lose the count. All I’ve said is that I lose the count no more frequently (or less often) than a contemporary using an indicator. Oh sure! I’ve had those spooked moments, when I’ve been hoping-hoping-hoping that the Batter fouls this one off, or puts it in play… but for the most part, and especially on high-end (as in, needing more cognition) games, I usually sort it out. 

I have a really sharp memory, and can recall pitch sequences. What helps me, tremendously, is I create “timestamps”. Say I have a 1-1 count, and the next pitch comes in to make it 2-1. I will purposely announce and present the count “2… 1” with my fingers. I say it with a cadence for a reason… I’m actually taking a snapshot of it. I have specific timestamps: 

• 1-2
• 2-1
• 3-0
• 3-2 
• And, any time there is a change in status on the basepaths (steal or CS, balk, etc) or a return from a conference. 

Granted, fatigue does affect me from time to time, and there’s been a few times where I’ve been rescued by the home book or the GameChanger. These are marginal when you consider I do ≈ 150 plates per year. 

Warren ( @Umpire in Chief ), Kyle ( @kylehutson ) and I are examples of guys using the “fingertap” method as an alternative to a physical indicator. 

[The Man in Blue]

4 hours ago, kylehutson said:

*Ahem* - that's indi-clicki-counter

Now that is just counterintuitive.

 

[Kevin_K]

I own an indicator. I'm not really sure where it might be. The last place I remember seeing it was on the washing machine. I'd bet it was in my back pocket and I forgot to take it out. That was about four or five years ago.

I haven't used an indicator in a while. Like @MadMax, there are times when I have to replay a sequence in my head to remember where the count should be. I usually say to the catcher and the batter what the count is on each pitch. Only they can hear it and more often than not they are appreciative of the update. The "Oh Sh*t!" moments are few and far between.

Everyone else gets updates on 2-1, 1-2, 3-0, 3-2, and after plays similar to Max.

It works for me. Do whatever works for you. I couldn't possibly care less unless you're one of those umpires whose face is in their indicator more than a fat kid's hand is in the cookie jar.

[The Man in Blue]

I think the critical piece of information missing (beyond personal mental capacity, and I KNOW I am forgetful … that or I forgot I have a great memory) is what kind of games are you calling?

Single game, varsity or above, smooth sailing?  Much easier to go indi-commando.

Game 4 or 5 (or worse) of the day in a State Junior League World Championship of the Southern Northwestern Hemisphere Platinum Division tournament (that happens on a weekly basis) … I ain’t remembering $#!+.

There is a “local not-so local” assignor I am trying to get on with.  Very old school and grumpy.  I was warned not to take an indicator on the bases with me.  He will rip it out of your hands and toss it.  Again, if he is assigning higher level games where the scoreboard is there as a backup, OK.  If you send me to a local park with a parent volunteer maybe running the board, nope.

[JonnyCat]

4 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

It works for me. Do whatever works for you. I couldn't possibly care less unless you're one of those umpires whose face is in their indicator more than a fat kid's hand is in the cookie jar.

Exactly! Thank you! I could care less if you carry one or not. How's your game? That's what is important.

And where did this notion come from that the world is going to end, or you're a SH*# umpire if you happen to glance at your indicator once in a while? Why is there a stigma around that?

Who the F*#K cares if you occasionally glance at you indicator at appropriate times? What F*#King possible difference could it make catching an occasional glance? It's no different than glancing at the scoreboard once in a while. And yes, we all do it. And yes my indicator is notched, been doing that for years.

I don't know why we sometimes focus on abject stupidity, like don't ever look at your indicator, you must wear your stupid association patch, you must wear the EXACT same shirt, color of ball bags, blah, blah, blah! Nobody F*#King cares and it's not helping recruiting and retaining umpires.

[Velho]

On 6/21/2024 at 8:46 AM, Velho said:

You all got me. Finally ordered one.

This thing is a beast. I don't think I'm going to be misplacing it like I do my old one. And I'll sure feel secure walking to my car in a sticky situation.