Coaches

[urout17]

NFHS varsity. I was looking for a rule which states how many coaches are allowed in a dugout, provided they are in full team uniform.  Reading through Rule 3-2, I could not find any mention of how many are allowed.  Thanks for any help.

[maven]

I don't recall a constraint (beyond the uniform you mentioned). FED generally regards more adult supervision as better.

State associations sometimes have limits, especially in the state tournament (mine does).

We have to deal only with the big cheese (though polite & respectful speech should be reciprocated from any participant).

[wolfe_man]

I'm curious, how many did they have to spur this question from you?

I've seen 5 a few times this year, was it more than that?

[noumpere]

49 minutes ago, urout17 said:

NFHS varsity. I was looking for a rule which states how many coaches are allowed in a dugout, provided they are in full team uniform.  Reading through Rule 3-2, I could not find any mention of how many are allowed.  Thanks for any help.

It's in Rule 11

[urout17]

10 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

I'm curious, how many did they have to spur this question from you?

I've seen 5 a few times this year, was it more than that?

They had seven total (which included the HC), all in uniform.  It was a rival District championship game. Our three-man crew had both of these teams throughout the year vs each other and separately. Of course it was no big deal during the regular season but NOW it was an issue.  We were kind of surprised at the question since the players, coaches and us all know one another very well.

[urout17]

30 minutes ago, maven said:

I don't recall a constraint (beyond the uniform you mentioned). FED generally regards more adult supervision as better.

State associations sometimes have limits, especially in the state tournament (mine does).

We have to deal only with the big cheese (though polite & respectful speech should be reciprocated from any participant).

I read through our playoff addendum and it only mentioned the quantity of uniformed players allowed. 

[wolfe_man]

40 minutes ago, urout17 said:

They had seven total (which included the HC), all in uniform.  It was a rival District championship game. Our three-man crew had both of these teams throughout the year vs each other and separately. Of course it was no big deal during the regular season but NOW it was an issue.  We were kind of surprised at the question since the players, coaches and us all know one another very well.

Yes, that's quite a few.  I've had 6 once this year, but I guess I normally only see this with the very good programs.  

The larger schools normally have more coaches and it's fun watching them go through their drills, because they'll have a coach all over the place (infield, outfield, 3B line, 1B line, at plate, etc.) running drills and giving feedback.  I actually watch these when time allows because I can learn also during these times - and I absolutely love it when a team does all the little things right, especially fundamentals.

[MadMax]

9 hours ago, urout17 said:

I was looking for a rule which states how many coaches are allowed in a dugout, provided they are in full team uniform.

Why? 🤨 

Why are you looking in the cave for a bear? You know that thar’ cave has a bear in it, and you’re going to be pokin’ in there to count how many bears are in there, and (attempt) to do something about it??!! 

As a certain memorable songwriter started one of his songs – “Nothing good can come from this.”

Look, beyond the Head Coach and any/all Base Coaches (anyone who walks out to take that role), those adults in the dugout could be any number of personnel – a trainer, team doctor, statistician, AD, bus driver, media person / photographer, pastor / priest / nun, scout-as-guest – and they needn’t be dressed in the team uniform. Oh sure, the priest or nun will be in uniform, but it will be for a higher team. They can all be in there; they just can’t come out of the dugout during play to coach their team (as a base coach or pitching coach making a mound visit), or to interact with the umpires (call questioning, lineup changes, etc.). 

Also, there’s a limit to how many times the “scepter can be passed” should a Head Coach be Ejected. The importance of a responsible adult acting as chaperone is such that coaches (plural) can be, and often should be, restricted instead of outright ejected. By restricting them, they still serve that chaperone role for NFHS requirements. If the HC gets ejected, though, who does the responsibility now fall to? A “new” head coach must be designated, if only for the purpose of satisfying the NFHS requirement. If that assistant coach is in team uniform, and wants to go stand in the 3BC Box, and interact with the umpires, and go visit the pitcher for a conference, then so be it. If, however, we have an incident, or a series of incidents of severity occur, and the umpires have ejected the head coach and two assistant coaches, and all that’s left in the dugout is the scorekeeper and the priest, despite the priest’s over-qualification to be responsible for the team, this lack of a coach will likely result in a forfeit.

Conversely, if there’s a graduate assistant (an alum) serving as a catching or pitching coach, with a team t-shirt and some athletic shorts on, that mantle of responsibility may fall on him, but he will be (notified, of course) restricted to the dugout because he’s not in team uniform. If I was an umpire on that game, I would grant him some latitude, such as signaling to me/us that he has lineup changes to talk over with me/us at the dugout instead of walking out to the plate area. 

Not all these “transfers of power” come from adverse actions. One time, we started a game at a small HS, with one head coach and a wizened ol’ bookkeeper… and about 3 innings in, the coach gets “tapped out” by the AD. There was a family emergency, and the AD took over… in a school polo and golf slacks. He understood he couldn’t go to the base coach boxes, but he remained in the dugout and engaged with us over the pony fence. 

 

[The Man in Blue]

My bad, Max.  I was looking for the beer cave.  I stopped two doors on the left too soon.

 

Sorry for the tangent, but it is loosely related.  Worked a V/JV double header a few weeks ago (in awful, miserable weather) for a private school that is usually pretty good.  They aren't this year, and they got skunked 21-2 this game.  They had six adult coaches in the dugout for the varsity game, including a guy who pitched up to AAA who is supposed to be working with their pitchers.

My partner and I switch out for the second game.  When we come back to the field ... ONE coach.  The JV game is, of course, even worse.  The kids' behavior and interest were worse than 8u softball players (and I coached 8u softball, I know).  Why is that?  Well ... where did the coaches go?  Sorry guys, if you want to have a good varsity program that keeps enough kids to continue playing, you need to show the kids that you care and that it matters.  

[Senor Azul]

NFHS rule 3-2-1 does not require a coach to be in uniform. Here's what the second sentence of the rule says--

A coach who is not in the uniform of the team shall be restricted to the bench/dugout.

Rule 3-3-1 mentions authorized personnel who are allowed in the dugout but does not define that term or the term bench personnel. According to the 2016 edition of the BRD, in a Note found on page 94, since FED does not define the term "bench personnel" it is anyone the head coach wants on the bench.

[SeeingEyeDog]

...and let's also remember that under FED, any coach who leaves the dugout or the base coaches' boxes to argue judgement is restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game as is the head coach. And as always, if the infraction is egregious enough, the violator may be ejected.

Related, I think it's garbage that there is no limit on the size of the game day rosters under FED. In my market, there are teams with guys who are never going to see the playing field and whose #1 job is to jockey the bench. When infractions occur, we address them...but the "strategies" being employed here are garbage. 35 guys on a gameday HS roster is excessive for no other reason than a toxic flex and intimidation of the opponent.

~Dawg  

[The Man in Blue]

Or a school that has a no-cut policy.  

[Mudisfun]

I had a youth Pony game a few years back... visiting team had 1 coach. Home team had more coaches than players, or so it seemed.

Guess who won?

[Velho]

1 hour ago, Mudisfun said:

Guess who won?

Wouldn't you know who won the pony?!?

[beerguy55]

Had a tourney that enforced a limit...only four coaches could be on the roster, and only rostered people could be in the dugout.  As the fifth coach in uniform I was told I could not be added to the roster and I had to go sit in the stands...so I sat directly behind home plate coached the outfielders from there.  They didn't really think that one through.