NFHS rules v. NCAA

[Beacher80 1]

Is there a resource anyone knows of showing the rules differences between federation and NCAA?  

[noumpere 3,251]

If you are looking for a reference:  then Childress' Baseball Rules Differences might work -- I'm not sure if it's been updated in a few years though.

If you are looking to learn the rules, BRD won't work for you (or, to be clear, it didn't work for me).  Instead, my advice is to read the rule book as if it were the first time you were learning to umpire.  Make a note (or highlight) anything that "surprises" you.  Then, put back on your "experienced umpire hat" and go back through the book and see if the surprise is a difference from FED.  Make your own chart of the differences.

Here is the chart I prepared based on that many years ago (so some of the statements in here are wrong because the rules have changed) -- it was based on trying to get it all on one page, and combining the importance, frequency, and how likely I was to forget the difference.

 

https://fvbumpire.com/page.php?id=28

[Beacher80 1]

4 hours ago, noumpere said:

If you are looking for a reference:  then Childress' Baseball Rules Differences might work -- I'm not sure if it's been updated in a few years though.

If you are looking to learn the rules, BRD won't work for you (or, to be clear, it didn't work for me).  Instead, my advice is to read the rule book as if it were the first time you were learning to umpire.  Make a note (or highlight) anything that "surprises" you.  Then, put back on your "experienced umpire hat" and go back through the book and see if the surprise is a difference from FED.  Make your own chart of the differences.

Here is the chart I prepared based on that many years ago (so some of the statements in here are wrong because the rules have changed) -- it was based on trying to get it all on one page, and combining the importance, frequency, and how likely I was to forget the difference.

 

https://fvbumpire.com/page.php?id=28

Thanks  Noumpere.  I'll make a similar chart myself, probably the best way to learn it anyway.

[BigVic69 13]

There is an app for that (sort of) and it will give an overview.  It is the app in the upper left corner.

Happy hunting

 

[lawump 1,164]

With the numerous rule changes over the last several rules cycles, I would say the differences are becoming greater as NCAA has been trending towards being more in line with OBR interpretations and away from FED over that time.  All of that to say: that even though it is not that long ago a 2016 edition of the BRD is probably too out-of-date when dealing with the NCAA as it has had a lot of significant changes.

[BT_Blue 1,571]

@BigVic69beat me to it. Baseball Rules In Black And White can be found on both Android and Apple as well as going through their website. 

@lawumpits funny... there was a while there where NCAA moved more in line with NFHS (best example is the FPSR and their paranoia of the Hybrid pitching stance). But now it has shifted and started moving closer to OBR again (which to me makes more sense). 

[mac266 28]

On 11/15/2020 at 1:14 AM, BT_Blue said:

 

@lawumpits funny... there was a while there where NCAA moved more in line with NFHS (best example is the FPSR and their paranoia of the Hybrid pitching stance). But now it has shifted and started moving closer to OBR again (which to me makes more sense). 

The big thing for me about the FED rules is the balk.  It's an immediate dead ball, award the bases.  Easy to adjudicate.  In OBR, there are a *TON* of variables because it's a delayed dead ball.  I have a hard time keeping them straight -- balk when the pitch was ball 4 and a runner on 1st (does the lead runner go to 3rd because they got 2nd on the walk and 3rd on the balk?), balk when the pitch was wild, balk when the pitch was strike 3, etc.  

[BT_Blue 1,571]

1 hour ago, mac266 said:

The big thing for me about the FED rules is the balk.  It's an immediate dead ball, award the bases.  Easy to adjudicate.  In OBR, there are a *TON* of variables because it's a delayed dead ball.  I have a hard time keeping them straight -- balk when the pitch was ball 4 and a runner on 1st (does the lead runner go to 3rd because they got 2nd on the walk and 3rd on the balk?), balk when the pitch was wild, balk when the pitch was strike 3, etc.  

Firstly, no they only get second with R1, ball 4, and a balk.

Secondly, it is known i fit firmly into the group that is not a fan of "lowest common denominator" rules that NFHS has had in the past. But I actually have grown to like the FED balk rule. 

Yes, it would suck to call back a home run. But how often does that ever happen? Once every 40 blue moons?

[TheRockawayKid 51]

On 1/5/2021 at 1:42 PM, BT_Blue said:

Firstly, no they only get second with R1, ball 4, and a balk.

Secondly, it is known i fit firmly into the group that is not a fan of "lowest common denominator" rules that NFHS has had in the past. But I actually have grown to like the FED balk rule. 

Yes, it would suck to call back a home run. But how often does that ever happen? Once every 40 blue moons?

I had the plate. Top 7, visitors down by 2. R1 R2.  Partner in the field called a balk right before the kid hit a home run. Coach was not happy, though I said that there was nothing I can do about it. 

EDITED HERE BECAUSE MY MEMORY WAS WRONG: I believe he grounded out and the coach was not happy about it. 

Edited January 13 by TheRockawayKid

[Jimurray 897]

1 hour ago, TheRockawayKid said:

I had the plate. Top 7, visitors down by 2. R1 R2.  Partner in the field called a balk right before the kid hit a home run. Coach was not happy, though I said that there was nothing I can do about it. 

Coach was less happy at us when he hit into a 4-6-3 two pitches later. 

A survey sent out by NFHS this last year asked if you (I don't remember who the survey was directed at as far as "you') would like to see the balk rule changed to "coach choice".  It's not perfect and I would prefer using the NCAA/OBR rule with training for those who lack comprehension but it would be better than a the dead ball rule. Interestingly, I just was on a UTD facebook page where a supposed NCAA, Northwoods League, umpire would have kicked the NCAA/OBR rule. He deleted his post after being corrected. But, aside from that treatice, what balk did your partner see that you didn't?

[Kevin_K 851]

21 hours ago, TheRockawayKid said:

I had the plate. Top 7, visitors down by 2. R1 R2.  Partner in the field called a balk right before the kid hit a home run. Coach was not happy, though I said that there was nothing I can do about it. 

Coach was less happy at us when he hit into a 4-6-3 two pitches later. 

If a balk was called with R1 and R2, how did the BR hit into a 4-6-3?

[noumpere 3,251]

39 minutes ago, Kevin_K said:

If a balk was called with R1 and R2, how did the BR hit into a 4-6-3?

F4 throws to F6 who tags (new) R2.  F6 then throws to F3 to force (yeah, I know) out the coach (see below)

 

22 hours ago, TheRockawayKid said:

Coach was less happy at us when he hit into a 4-6-3 two pitches later.

 

[Rich Ives 1,162]

16 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

If a balk was called with R1 and R2, how did the BR hit into a 4-6-3?

Balk nullified the HR. Batter back to the plate. Hit into the DP.

[Kevin_K 851]

11 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Balk nullified the HR. Batter back to the plate. Hit into the DP.

Right. HR nullified. R1 and R2 move up, Now R2 and R3.

Your move @Rich Ives

[Rich Ives 1,162]

13 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

Right. HR nullified. R1 and R2 move up, Now R2 and R3.  

 

Your move @Rich Ives

 

Rockaway umps messed up the runner placement after the bruhaha over negating  the HR. Bet they called it a do-over.

[Kevin_K 851]

2 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

 

Rockaway umps messed up the runner placement after the bruhaha over negating  the HR. Bet they called it a do-over.

I can accept that!  

[TheRockawayKid 51]

On 1/6/2021 at 6:08 PM, Kevin_K said:

If a balk was called with R1 and R2, how did the BR hit into a 4-6-3?

You're obviously right on this, and I obviously misremembered it. I know he grounded out... maybe it was a fielder's choice instead? 

[TheRockawayKid 51]

On 1/7/2021 at 10:37 AM, Rich Ives said:

Balk nullified the HR. Batter back to the plate. Hit into the DP.

No he grounded out. That's certain. Probably was a fielder's choice instead? 

[BT_Blue 1,571]

On 1/5/2021 at 7:17 PM, Jimurray said:

A survey sent out by NFHS this last year asked if you (I don't remember who the survey was directed at as far as "you') would like to see the balk rule changed to "coach choice".  It's not perfect and I would prefer using the NCAA/OBR rule with training for those who lack comprehension but it would be better than a the dead ball rule. Interestingly, I just was on a UTD facebook page where a supposed NCAA, Northwoods League, umpire would have kicked the NCAA/OBR rule. He deleted his post after being corrected. But, aside from that treatice, what balk did your partner see that you didn't?

It was Trevor, wasn't it? Lol

I kid of course.

[beerguy55 733]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:11 PM, TheRockawayKid said:

I had the plate. Top 7, visitors down by 2. R1 R2.  Partner in the field called a balk right before the kid hit a home run. Coach was not happy, though I said that there was nothing I can do about it. 

Coach was less happy at us when he hit into a 4-6-3 two pitches later. 

And then you woke up from the weird dream???