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2020 DH Rule Change


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Agreed.  Only one player/person can play the position of "DH" for the entire game, and that person is the starter.  If S1 comes in to pitch, the coach can tell the umpire at that time that he is leavi

This is the part that I believe is going to need some Preventive officiating on our part. Someone let me know if I have anything wrong in this scenario.  Situation Adams starts at P/DH.

Why apologies? NCAA hasn't changed anything. My response was to @Forest Ump to reinforce why FED is more onerous than NCAA regarding the DH. But I like your question as to "why" for multiple times. No

37 minutes ago, ricka56 said:

Has anyone seen the new DH rule written in the 2020 RB. 
If so, could you post the text of the DH rule change/addition.

Thanks in advance.

3-1-4(b)

The Starting DH may be any one of the starting defensive players. In this manner, the starting defensive player has 2 positions: The defensive player, and the DH.The role of the defensive player may be substituted for by any legal sub. If the defensive player has been substituted for, the original player/DH may re enter one time. The role of the DH is terminated for the remainder of the game when

1. A sub, or former sub for the defensive role subsequently participates in an offensive role; or

2. The starting defensive player/DH is substituted for either as a hitter or a runner. 

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18 hours ago, ricka56 said:

Does anyone know whether this DH rule change impacts the courtesy runner speed-up rule ? Is a courtesy runner allowed for F1/DH or F2/DH ?

Remember with this rule, when on offense they aren't their defensive position, they are the DH. DH's aren't allowed to have CRs. 

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To sum it up. The line up can be either 9 players or 10 players. If it's 9 players, one player can be designated the P/DH at the beginning of the game. That allows the line up to go to ten players anytime during the game. Once they are at ten players, the DH rule is the same as it has always been for HS. Am I missing anything?

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16 minutes ago, Forest Ump said:

To sum it up. The line up can be either 9 players or 10 players. If it's 9 players, one player can be designated the P/DH at the beginning of the game. That allows the line up to go to ten players anytime during the game. Once they are at ten players, the DH rule is the same as it has always been for HS. Am I missing anything?

One player can be any position/DH... not just P/DH

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Right. Same as before. Any player can be designated a P(layer)/DH. The line up can now go from 9 to 10. After that, nothing has changed.

Note: People are going to constantly quote that this is the same as the college rule. It is and it isn't. P/DH is pitcher/DH in college. P/DH is player/DH in HS. Starters and subs are burnt in college. Starters can reenter once in HS. Subs are always burnt in HS. Same as it's always been.

 

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On 12/27/2019 at 7:25 AM, Forest Ump said:

To sum it up. The line up can be either 9 players or 10 players. If it's 9 players, one player can be designated the P/DH at the beginning of the game. That allows the line up to go to ten players anytime during the game. Once they are at ten players, the DH rule is the same as it has always been for HS. Am I missing anything?

Not exactly. If the lineup goes from 9 to 10 as you have stated, and then the DH is removed for whatever reason, the DH position is burned and you are back to 9. So if you use an eligible sub to hit or run for the DH, the original DH and current defensive player have been removed. This is different than the old DH rule where you could run or hit for the DH and that sub assumes the DH position.

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7 hours ago, NorthTexasUmp said:

Not exactly. If the lineup goes from 9 to 10 as you have stated, and then the DH is removed for whatever reason, the DH position is burned and you are back to 9. So if you use an eligible sub to hit or run for the DH, the original DH and current defensive player have been removed. This is different than the old DH rule where you could run or hit for the DH and that sub assumes the DH position.

This is the part that I believe is going to need some Preventive officiating on our part.

Someone let me know if I have anything wrong in this scenario. 

Situation

Adams starts at P/DH. In the 5th, Jones comes in to pitch, Adams stays as DH.  In the 6th, Adams doubles, but turns an ankle. Coach wants Taylor to pinch run for Adams.  Coach needs to realize such a move has removed both the DH role, and Jones from the game. Taylor, and Taylor alone now occupies that spot in the lineup. As a starter, Adams has re entry rights to that spot, but if he re enters, he is "one" player playing defense and hitting..(not fielder/DH)  As a sub, Jones is done for the day when Taylor pinch runs for Adams. 

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Another odd situation I've thought of.... Someone let me know if I have this right..

Adams starts as P/DH batting 3rd. .

Adams gets hurt pitching and is removed from the game.  He is clearly out of the game. He's not just out as the pitcher, he's hurt and will not be playing anymore today.

  S1 comes in to pitch.

When the 3 spot comes up in the lineup, S1 would have to hit there if the team intends for him to continue pitching (or just remaining in the game at any defensive position for that matter)? S1 would simply be the pitcher, batting 3rd. DH gone for the game. 

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2 hours ago, Richvee said:

Another odd situation I've thought of.... Someone let me know if I have this right..

Adams starts as P/DH batting 3rd. .

Adams gets hurt pitching and is removed from the game.  He is clearly out of the game. He's not just out as the pitcher, he's hurt and will not be playing anymore today.

  S1 comes in to pitch.

When the 3 spot comes up in the lineup, S1 would have to hit there if the team intends for him to continue pitching (or just remaining in the game at any defensive position for that matter)? S1 would simply be the pitcher, batting 3rd. DH gone for the game. 

Sounds right to me, but I'm certainly not super comfortable with this rule yet either.

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On 12/26/2019 at 7:52 AM, JSam21 said:

Remember with this rule, when on offense they aren't their defensive position, they are the DH. DH's aren't allowed to have CRs. 

That is one way to look at it, but not the only way. Another way to look at it is when a team is on offense, they have B1, B2...B9. With the F1 and F2 of record allowed to have a CR. If the Fed looked at it this way, they could have kept this speed up rule with the new DH rule.    

But from what I have read, that is not the way the Fed wants it...for now. I'm OK with that ... just want to know the current rule.  

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On 12/28/2019 at 9:14 AM, NorthTexasUmp said:

Not exactly. If the lineup goes from 9 to 10 as you have stated, and then the DH is removed for whatever reason, the DH position is burned and you are back to 9. So if you use an eligible sub to hit or run for the DH, the original DH and current defensive player have been removed. This is different than the old DH rule where you could run or hit for the DH and that sub assumes the DH position.

Thanks NTU. That make more sense after reading the 2nd part of the rule that Rich posted.

 

16 hours ago, Richvee said:

Another odd situation I've thought of.... Someone let me know if I have this right..

Adams starts as P/DH batting 3rd. .

Adams gets hurt pitching and is removed from the game.  He is clearly out of the game. He's not just out as the pitcher, he's hurt and will not be playing anymore today.

  S1 comes in to pitch.

When the 3 spot comes up in the lineup, S1 would have to hit there if the team intends for him to continue pitching (or just remaining in the game at any defensive position for that matter)? S1 would simply be the pitcher, batting 3rd. DH gone for the game. 

S1 is coming in on defense for Adams, the P/DH? Wouldn't S1 now continue as the new P/DH?  That move alone wouldn't kill the DH. They would still be at nine players and would have the opportunity to go to ten if the coach wants to designate a hitter for S1. Does that sound right?

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3 hours ago, Forest Ump said:

Thanks NTU. That make more sense after reading the 2nd part of the rule that Rich posted.

 

S1 is coming in on defense for Adams, the P/DH? Wouldn't S1 now continue as the new P/DH?  That move alone wouldn't kill the DH. They would still be at nine players and would have the opportunity to go to ten if the coach wants to designate a hitter for S1. Does that sound right?

 I can see that, but the rule states that if the starting fielder/DH is substituted for on offense, the role of DH is terminated for the remainder of the game. 
 

It sounds to me, that S1 could continue to pitch and hit, but he’s just a player like any other player who fields and hits. The DH is gone. IOW- You cannot substitute the fielder/ DH with a new fielder/DH. 

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On 12/29/2019 at 4:18 PM, Richvee said:

You cannot substitute the fielder/ DH with a new fielder/DH. 

Agreed.  Only one player/person can play the position of "DH" for the entire game, and that person is the starter.  If S1 comes in to pitch, the coach can tell the umpire at that time that he is leaving the starter in as the DH.  Then, when the DH's position comes up to bat, if Adams can't bat because of the injury...the role of DH will be terminated.  S1 can bat (and the team will now have a 9-man lineup), or another substitute can enter to bat.  But that second substitute would be replacing both Adams and S1 as the role of DH is terminated.  The team would have a 9-man lineup and S1 would have no re-entry rights.

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Ok. I think I’ve got this rule down. Without sounding pompous or pigheaded, I can see a lot of issues and miss understanding from guys who don’t have their heads in the rule books like we do here. Or, maybe not. Maybe lots of teams shy away from even using it because they don’t fully understand it. 

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1 hour ago, Richvee said:

Ok. I think I’ve got this rule down. Without sounding pompous or pigheaded, I can see a lot of issues and miss understanding from guys who don’t have their heads in the rule books like we do here. Or, maybe not. Maybe lots of teams shy away from even using it because they don’t fully understand it. 

Admittedly, you're doing better than me. I think I have a somewhat better understanding than I did but still have some questions (many of which have been answered in this thread thankfully). We're having our first meeting on Monday and I predict most of that time will be spent talking about this new rule. 

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I also think the plate meeting needs to get emphasis this year. When you are handed a lineup card and it is a 9-man lineup, I would confirm multiple times that the coach doesn't want to signal a DH of any sort.

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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 3:34 PM, Minnz said:

I would confirm multiple times that the coach doesn't want to signal a DH of any sort.

Why?

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2 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Why?

Exactly. We have to learn the DH rule. They have to learn the DH rule. If they don't declare it at the plate meeting, then they don't have a P/DH for the game. Simple enough. It's not your job to correct their strategy mistakes.

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14 minutes ago, Forest Ump said:

Exactly. We have to learn the DH rule. They have to learn the DH rule. If they don't declare it at the plate meeting, then they don't have a P/DH for the game. Simple enough. It's not your job to correct their strategy mistakes.

NCAA does not require a pitcher in a 9 man lineup to be declared as P/DH. The difference in FED is that it is a PLAYER/DH, although most of the occurrences will probably be with a pitcher.

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28 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

NCAA does not require a pitcher in a 9 man lineup to be declared as P/DH. The difference in FED is that it is a PLAYER/DH, although most of the occurrences will probably be with a pitcher.

Apologies.  Given that the topic is 2020 DH Rule Change, I naturally assumed the conversation WAS for NFHS.  I didn't realize NCAA changed theirs also.  Thanks. 

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32 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

 

Apologies.  Given that the topic is 2020 DH Rule Change, I naturally assumed the conversation WAS for NFHS.  I didn't realize NCAA changed theirs also.  Thanks. 

Why apologies? NCAA hasn't changed anything. My response was to @Forest Ump to reinforce why FED is more onerous than NCAA regarding the DH. But I like your question as to "why" for multiple times. No need. In my neck of the woods when we get a 9 man lineup we look it over and confirm with the coach one time: "straight nine?" That one question/observation should suffice for the new change also.

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