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So here we are town playoffs, this must be the losers bracket as its win or go home and there is one more game left.

game goes back and forth a little  end of the 5th VT is up 11-8

Teams start to change sides to go to the 6th we have plenty of light still.

 

VTC steps out of the dugout "Hey blue its 8:02" game is over"

I pull the phone out of my back pocket yep 8:02

Now I get it, during the season 2 hrs is there to keep the games organized and try to keep them moving.  This one has not been bad, a couple slow starts waiting on catchers but maybe 3 times for 3 minutes each.

So I approach HTHC  explain I cannot start another inning we have exceeded time.  He's like "But this is the playoffs"  I explain "Its played under the same rules as the season play"

I say "come with me we'll talk with Paul(VTHC)"

We conference. I tell them both "Look I'm here for the kids, I love to see them play and succeed, However the rule is 2 hours. I will let it go if you both agree to finish the game."

HTHC " OK lets play"   ( he's down by 3)

VTHC  " Nope that's game"

OK I say that's game .. I look at  Pete (VTHC) and say "Sorry gotta go by the book on this one, its a shame but that's the way it goes"

I call game is over 2hr mark has been reached  2 of the HTAC's kinda loose it they get upset with HTHC but after about 10 seconds they get it back together one even goes over and hugs him as the lines are forming to shake hands.  It ended very well considering

 

So I was walking to the "shack" to get a Gatorade and one of the league officials approaches me and thanks me for a good game I explain I was sorry to see it end that way, He says don't worry if the tables were turned that other coach would have done the same thing.   

It slapped me across the face  yep, when faced with a chance to snatch a win for your kids of course you are going to play the time rule.  Your moving your kids to the final.. Sigh

Wish they had implemented "Play off" Rules so we did not have to do that but eh glad it was a good game. 

 

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1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

So here we are town playoffs, this must be the losers bracket as its win or go home and there is one more game left.

game goes back and forth a little  end of the 5th VT is up 11-8

Teams start to change sides to go to the 6th we have plenty of light still.

 

VTC steps out of the dugout "Hey blue its 8:02" game is over"

I pull the phone out of my back pocket yep 8:02

Now I get it, during the season 2 hrs is there to keep the games organized and try to keep them moving.  This one has not been bad, a couple slow starts waiting on catchers but maybe 3 times for 3 minutes each.

So I approach HTHC  explain I cannot start another inning we have exceeded time.  He's like "But this is the playoffs"  I explain "Its played under the same rules as the season play"

I say "come with me we'll talk with Paul(VTHC)"

We conference. I tell them both "Look I'm here for the kids, I love to see them play and succeed, However the rule is 2 hours. I will let it go if you both agree to finish the game."

HTHC " OK lets play"   ( he's down by 3)

VTHC  " Nope that's game"

OK I say that's game .. I look at  Pete (VTHC) and say "Sorry gotta go by the book on this one, its a shame but that's the way it goes"

I call game is over 2hr mark has been reached  2 of the HTAC's kinda loose it they get upset with HTHC but after about 10 seconds they get it back together one even goes over and hugs him as the lines are forming to shake hands.  It ended very well considering

 

So I was walking to the "shack" to get a Gatorade and one of the league officials approaches me and thanks me for a good game I explain I was sorry to see it end that way, He says don't worry if the tables were turned that other coach would have done the same thing.   

It slapped me across the face  yep, when faced with a chance to snatch a win for your kids of course you are going to play the time rule.  Your moving your kids to the final.. Sigh

Wish they had implemented "Play off" Rules so we did not have to do that but eh glad it was a good game. 

 

Just to be clear, in most codes, the new inning started when the third out was made in the bottom of the fifth. In your OP most likely that happened after 8:00 since sides were changing at 8:02.

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18 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Just to be clear, in most codes, the new inning started when the third out was made in the bottom of the fifth. In your OP most likely that happened after 8:00 since sides were changing at 8:02.

Yes the change was happening at 8:01 by my judgement which meant 2 hrs was past and no new inning could start

 

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This is why I wear a watch and keep time myself. At first pitch (or whenever time starts based on tournament/league rules) I hit the button, and the count down starts. If I don't catch it before it goes off, it beeps at me. Never have time disputes anymore.

It also means you don't have to pull out your phone, or even bring it to the field.

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18 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

This is why I wear a watch and keep time myself. At first pitch (or whenever time starts based on tournament/league rules) I hit the button, and the count down starts. If I don't catch it before it goes off, it beeps at me. Never have time disputes anymore.

It also means you don't have to pull out your phone, or even bring it to the field.

I also have my scorekeeper make a note of the start time.  When we are at the top of an inning within 15 or 20 minutes of the deadline I will also inform the coaches that this is probably the last one just so there are no surprises.

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Had a 12u softball tournament championship game with a 1:40 no new inning cutoff.  I'd started my stopwatch with the first warmup pitch.  Bottom 5, visiting team celebrates last out like they've won the game, and I grab my stopwatch and it reads 1:38.  Took a few seconds to get everyone's attention that we were still playing!  I showed the VTHC my still-running stopwatch, and confirmed with the Scorekeeper.  The result at the end was the same, but the girls got another inning of play in.

So +1 on the stopwatch idea.

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56 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

This is why I wear a watch and keep time myself. At first pitch (or whenever time starts based on tournament/league rules) I hit the button, and the count down starts. If I don't catch it before it goes off, it beeps at me. Never have time disputes anymore.

It also means you don't have to pull out your phone, or even bring it to the field.

I would not wear any watch on the field been hit enough on the left arm from inside foul balls   phone in my back pocket is just fine and I note the time when warm up pitches started was actually   5:58pm

 

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54 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

I would not wear any watch on the field been hit enough on the left arm from inside foul balls   phone in my back pocket is just fine and I note the time when warm up pitches started was actually   5:58pm

 

No one should wear a watch on the field. It’s a sign of an untrained umpire. If you have a need to keep time, as one of the base umps might in NCAA, you carry a stopwatch, usually on a lanyard, in your pocket. But I will say we might have reserve our judgment on an umpire wearing something on his wrist. I think I saw an MLB ump wearing a Fitbit. 

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I have a small pedometer that also has a clock. I attached a lanyard and loop it through my belt loop. It sits in my back pocket when on the bases and inside my ball bag when on the plate. After first pitch (or first warm-up if that's the league rule), I check the time and write it down on the lineup card or notepad.

The pedometer costs less than $10 on Amazon. It's low-profile and looks much more professional than pulling out a phone or wearing a watch.

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34 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

No one should wear a watch on the field. It’s a sign of an untrained umpire. If you have a need to keep time, as one of the base umps might in NCAA, you carry a stopwatch, usually on a lanyard, in your pocket. But I will say we might have reserve our judgment on an umpire wearing something on his wrist. I think I saw an MLB ump wearing a Fitbit. 

Color me untrained, then.  I wear my fitbit on the left wrist.  On the right, I wear a wrist-band that came with my medi-port, and a lime-green lymphoma awareness band.  The medi-port won't come off until the surgeon takes it out, and I will be buried with the awareness band.  None of that is coming off for anything on my schedule. 

(I suppose the fitbit could go, if a muckety muck, or Jennifer Garner, asked.  Not the bands, though.)

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Some leagues have "time limit" rules with unintended consequences.  One league where I officiate has a 1:45 rule.  BUT it only applies to ties!  That is, you will play all 6 innings regardless of the time limit, but if it ends in a tie at 6 innings AND 1:45 has expired, the game cannot continue.

The unintended consequence was that both teams were inept and it took 2:45 to finish the 6 innings (on a school night, no less!)  This is LL Majors, BTW.  The parents were livid!

I was Field ump, and I told the Plate ump that he lacked a basic game management skill:  He needed to keep the game moving!  You get a minute between innings, period!  Have someone warm up the pitcher if the catcher is getting his gear.  Go ahead and call for a batter if the defense is lallygagging.  Sure, a new pitcher gets usually 8 warmups, but if his buddies want to chat about useless stuff, penalize his lack of urgency.  Encourage hustle!

As bad as that game was, some useful game management techniques could have finished it in under 2 hours.

But don't allow stupid rules to begin with!

Mike

Las Vegas

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24 minutes ago, HokieUmp said:

Color me untrained, then.  I wear my fitbit on the left wrist.  On the right, I wear a wrist-band that came with my medi-port, and a lime-green lymphoma awareness band.  The medi-port won't come off until the surgeon takes it out, and I will be buried with the awareness band.  None of that is coming off for anything on my schedule. 

(I suppose the fitbit could go, if a muckety muck, or Jennifer Garner, asked.  Not the bands, though.)

That’s why I said we have to reserve judgment. A “watch” indicates untrained. We see other stuff on wrists that don’t. 

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1 hour ago, HokieUmp said:

Color me untrained, then.  I wear my fitbit on the left wrist.  On the right, I wear a wrist-band that came with my medi-port, and a lime-green lymphoma awareness band.  The medi-port won't come off until the surgeon takes it out, and I will be buried with the awareness band.  None of that is coming off for anything on my schedule. 

(I suppose the fitbit could go, if a muckety muck, or Jennifer Garner, asked.  Not the bands, though.)

I don't think anyone here advocated anything medically-related to be removed.

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20 hours ago, HokieUmp said:

(I suppose the fitbit could go, if a muckety muck, or Jennifer Garner, asked.  Not the bands, though.)

Is this Ms. Garner an umpire evaluator?

Fitbits and other smart-wearables are all the rage. I’ve taken a greater interest in getting an Apple Watch (I suppose I could just go with a basic FitBit, but why not go whole-hog?) once my crewmate told me that he’s putting in 4,000 – 5,000 steps on one of our recent 9-inning games!! My health and fitness has become a paramount to me now that I’m 44 and starting to feel the effects of a “hard sports life” as a catcher, goalie, and snowboarder.

I don’t mind the “awareness” bands. We’re human, after all. I lost a GF to cancer when we were in our twenties, and one of my Vultures lost his son to a knock-down, drag-out bout with bone cancer, so you better believe that we – as an umpire community and brotherhood (as we claim so often) – will be commemorating that kid and his tenacity with a bracelet at the very least. Maybe even a wristband and/or a patch on our shirts. Heck, I’d wear an orange innertube around my middle if it brought “awareness” to the war against cancer that we’re all immersed in.

How about these past two events (three, if we count Memorial Day) in the Major Leagues? Wherein professional umpires are wearing not only non-black hats, but also arm/wristbands, often on both arms?! And lest we forget the “white band campaign” that the MLB Umpires undertook, collectively, just last year?

But yet we have a few particular umpires (on here) who get all bent about a simple Father’s Day armband! (Not you, @Jimurray )

With so many tournament games formatted to time limits, I’d rather a BU wear a timepiece / watch than carry a phone. The phone is too much of a temptation to check / use between innings or during lulls. I’m particularly fond of a stopwatch, but there’s an advantage to using a timepiece that has a countdown timer. Whatever form it is – handheld, wrist, heck, I’ll even take an egg timer – it is crucial to keep accurate time. Do not approximate, do not round up or round down, and do not shave time.

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@MadMax Just curious why a countdown timer on my Galaxy S9+ which is in my back pocket and never comes out until I need to check time is any different.  Specially since I mute it.  I never check it for text or calls or anything BUT time and as far as I can tell no one knows its there until I pull it out to check.  

Now that said i did forget to set the timer last night.  I had been in the past slipped my mind last night.

But to that point too I have used it during tourney play to end a Protest that was launched last season.  call to DA they called Bristol had us all on speaker for a rules clarification which was "dumb" but the damn VTHC could not understand it at the time. 

anywho.. I see no reason carrying a phone  so long as its not out for "use" during the game..    IE LL Williamsport guy who was taking selfies during the game.. OMG.. hope that was no one here but that story is told at training.. as a what not to do..

 

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1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Just curious why a countdown timer on my Galaxy S9+ which is in my back pocket and never comes out until I need to check time is any different.  Specially since I mute it.  I never check it for text or calls or anything BUT time and as far as I can tell no one knows its there until I pull it out to check.

Because you're you, and from what I've read, you're in a position of some sort of leadership.

Also, there are games which are conducted bereft of any supervision or authority other than the umpires. For those, it is a personal and professional well-being issue best addressed by having a phone accessible / close at hand. However, when doing tournament or academy ball, or sanctioned High School or Collegiate ball, there is either a site director, tournament director, athletic director, or some sort of supervisory staff present. For those games, you really don't need a phone, and as such, you shouldn't have a phone. Even though that phone might have a countdown timer / stopwatch / and clock on it more advanced than my simple stopwatch, I really don't want a developing umpire, or an umpire I don't know (ie. haven't worked with before) to have a phone on him. There are too many temptations and tendencies to take calls / answer texts / engage in social media / etc. during the game when they are really needed to perform their job attentively.

Now, I would be a hypocrite if I didn't mention that my fellow Vultures do carry our phones with us, in some manner, on games. However, I trust that these colleagues: A) understand the context (they don't bring their phones on field during High School, College, or Pro games), and B) exhibit enough discretion to know what, when, and how to utilize their phones. There are days when we're conducting games, but then have games later on that we're still receiving scheduling information on. 

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Visited my son outside Atlanta several weeks ago to watch my grandson and granddaughter play, their scoreboards have "count-down clocks" on them. 

They set the time limit for the game (1:45, 2:00 whatever) and when the Plate Ump calls "Play Ball" the scorekeeper flips the switch and the countdown starts.  When the clock reaches zero a horn sounds (not really loud just loud enough to be heard).

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4 hours ago, MadMax said:

There are too many temptations and tendencies to take calls / answer texts / engage in social media / etc. during the game when they are really needed to perform their job attentively.

Even if that umpire isn't doing those things, there's the perception that he or she is. And we all know that perception often leads to reality, especially when a problem occurs.

My wife was involved in a moderate car accident years ago, in which she was rear-ended by another car, causing her to be pushed a few car lengths forward into another car (they were slowing down at a stop light - the car behind her didn't slow down). No major injuries to any of the three people.

When statements were written and filed with the police and insurance, the "back car" wrote that my wife was on her phone, causing her to stop quickly at the light, leading back car to have no time to slow down. My wife knew for a fact she wasn't on her phone, and ended up getting phone records to prove the last time she used her phone was to me 15 minutes before the accident, then a call to 911 at the time of the accident (this was before smartphones were a thing; we had texting and it was proven she wasn't using that, either). The reality was that the accident happened and my wife called 911; the person in the back car saw her on her phone and perceived she had been on it when the accident occurred.

Long story short: just pulling your phone out can give a perception of your non-stopwatch use of it. Spend a few bucks and get a stopwatch.

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7 hours ago, MadMax said:

Is this Ms. Garner an umpire evaluator?

Obligatory:  I would happily allow myself to be thoroughly evaluated.  And per one of her ads, she's a hockey fan, too, so big points from me on that.

Fitbits and other smart-wearables are all the rage. I’ve taken a greater interest in getting an Apple Watch (I suppose I could just go with a basic FitBit, but why not go whole-hog?) once my crewmate told me that he’s putting in 4,000 – 5,000 steps on one of our recent 9-inning games!! My health and fitness has become a paramount to me now that I’m 44 and starting to feel the effects of a “hard sports life” as a catcher, goalie, and snowboarder.

I will plug for FitBit. and they're likely less expensive than an Apple product (in case of destruction-by-baseball).  Mine is a Charge HR 2 (I think?), and it does steps, calories, heart rate sleep.  Good product.

I don’t mind the “awareness” bands. We’re human, after all. I lost a GF to cancer when we were in our twenties, and one of my Vultures lost his son to a knock-down, drag-out bout with bone cancer,

Sorry for those losses.  Obligatory:  F*#K cancer.

 

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2 hours ago, yawetag said:

Even if that umpire isn't doing those things, there's the perception that he or she is. And we all know that perception often leads to reality, especially when a problem occurs.

My wife was involved in a moderate car accident years ago, in which she was rear-ended by another car, causing her to be pushed a few car lengths forward into another car (they were slowing down at a stop light - the car behind her didn't slow down). No major injuries to any of the three people.

When statements were written and filed with the police and insurance, the "back car" wrote that my wife was on her phone, causing her to stop quickly at the light, leading back car to have no time to slow down. My wife knew for a fact she wasn't on her phone, and ended up getting phone records to prove the last time she used her phone was to me 15 minutes before the accident, then a call to 911 at the time of the accident (this was before smartphones were a thing; we had texting and it was proven she wasn't using that, either). The reality was that the accident happened and my wife called 911; the person in the back car saw her on her phone and perceived she had been on it when the accident occurred.

Long story short: just pulling your phone out can give a perception of your non-stopwatch use of it. Spend a few bucks and get a stopwatch.

I'm willing to accept that a watch may not be the best way to do it, but why? Why is a stopwatch hanging out of my pocket better? Is this one of those "because that's what we've done" things? I can't think of a reason wearing a watch would be deemed unprofessional, especially if it completes it's function better than a stopwatch, which I have to pull out to check, where as my watch I can easily glance at when time is coming close to the end. 

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I have to agree with biscuit. I have my phone in my back pocket on sillent. Whe the game starts, I go to the scorer, pull it out, and tell them the time we are starting. At the close of innings, I pull it out to check and then put it back.  If that's not professional enough for you, well, you can't please everybody.

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To go back to the OP: This can be minimized by clarifying at the plate conference what the time limit is. 

I was umpiring a LL local playoff game ~10 days ago. Partner and I checked with the coaches; both agreed that with no following game the time limit (1:45 no new inning, 2 hours drop dead) was not in effect (not a school night, if it matters). 

The game was a doozy on multiple levels, though I think we got most calls right. It went from 16-5 after the top of the 6th to 16-14 with tying runs on base at end of game. Plenty of parents were grumbling (and yelling!) that I should have stopped the game, but the coaches were cool. 

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3 hours ago, agdz59 said:

I have to agree with biscuit. I have my phone in my back pocket on sillent. Whe the game starts, I go to the scorer, pull it out, and tell them the time we are starting. At the close of innings, I pull it out to check and then put it back.  If that's not professional enough for you, well, you can't please everybody.

I actually disagree. I do not being my phone to the field, and would not unless there were no onsite administrators, and I needed to have it invade of emergency. 

The issue is not that I think you're checking a text, or Snapchat, or whatever, but it can look that way. I've also worked with partners that were checking texts etc (I've also known of a youth umpire taking a hit on a vape in the field, but that's a totally different level). It just looks really bad. It's also less discrete than checking a watch. 

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On 6/19/2019 at 12:23 PM, ArchAngel72 said:

I would not wear any watch on the field been hit enough on the left arm from inside foul balls   phone in my back pocket is just fine and I note the time when warm up pitches started was actually   5:58pm

 

OBR says the game starts when the first batter is in the box and the umpire says "Play". Does your league define the start? If not use the rule book.

5.01 Starting the Game (“Play Ball!”)
(a) At the time set for beginning the game the players of the home
team shall take their defensive positions, the first batter of the
visiting team shall take his position in the batter’s box, the
umpire-in-chief shall call “Play,” and the game shall start.

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28 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

OBR says the game starts when the first batter is in the box and the umpire says "Play". Does your league define the start? If not use the rule book.

5.01 Starting the Game (“Play Ball!”)
(a) At the time set for beginning the game the players of the home
team shall take their defensive positions, the first batter of the
visiting team shall take his position in the batter’s box, the
umpire-in-chief shall call “Play,” and the game shall start.

Tournaments around here they tell us to start the clock after the plate meeting.

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