Should I have got involved?

[Stk004]

46 minutes ago, maineump said:

Yeah - I understand that part of it. Just solve the problem, ASK YOUR PARTNER  .

Right, I agree. If fleas was PU in this scenario there'd be no issue. 

[blue32]

My take:

A) Like @BrianC14 said, anytime get asked to check with my partner on a checked swing, I check it. What's the harm? It's the ones where I said he went that they want me to get help on that piss me off. That's like calling 1B off the bag, and they want you to ask for help. I get NOT seeing something, but if I have to get help because I am actually seeing things that didn't really happen, then I probably need to call it a career. And seek counseling. 

B) The one thing that comes to mind where I would overrule my partner immediately on is a balk call. I have been the "overruler" and I have been the "overrulee" in this situation, when I or my partner, while on the plate, balk a kid for feinting to first, but missing the fact that he stepped off first. This happened to me one time several years ago, and I had no issue with my base guy letting me know he stepped off first. I've had to do that a few times as a base umpire. Hey, we all have a brain farts from time to time. 

C) I don't care where I am-A, B, C. If he made an attempt, and I see it, I effing bang it. The whole thing about being in A with a lefty up, C with a righty and so on, is a cop out in my opinion. 

Bottom line, in this particular case, if I'm not asked, I'm not getting involved.

 

[jkumpire]

3 hours ago, Stk004 said:

For what it's work @jkumpire , once the next pitch was thrown to your batter the opportunity for a protest was gone. They must protest right then and there when it happens. 

Of course you are correct, but relief from guilt was a ll I remember later.

What would be a really interesting case would be what my partner would do if the defense protested the game, since in our state protests in HS games are not allowed. What if he refused to accept the protest???????????

 

[beerguy55]

17 hours ago, Stk004 said:

I had an interesting discussion with another member about this. The protest would be over the fact that the PU didn't ask check down to his partner when he's required, by rule, to do so. This scenario is a judgment call, then a (protestable) rules application, which leads to another judgment call. 

But is this a check swing appeal?  It was a bunt, and by definition a bunt is not a swing.  Does the request to "appeal" a bunt offer fit the same parameter as appealing a check swing?

However, I would protest because the umpire specifically said he was not allowed to ask his partner, and that he was not allowed to change the call - that statement would constitute a misapplication of the rules....which, like you said, then leads to another judgment call.

[noumpere]

1 minute ago, beerguy55 said:

 I'm assuming the request to "appeal" a bunt offer doesn't fit the same parameter as appealing a check swing?

That's not a valid assumption.

[beerguy55]

9 minutes ago, noumpere said:

That's not a valid assumption.

Edited too late - I reworded as a question.

[blue32]

50 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

But is this a check swing appeal?  It was a bunt, and by definition a bunt is not a swing.  Does the request to "appeal" a bunt offer fit the same parameter as appealing a check swing?

However, I would protest because the umpire specifically said he was not allowed to ask his partner, and that he was not allowed to change the call - that statement would constitute a misapplication of the rules....which, like you said, then leads to another judgment call.

Yes. It's an offer or it's not an offer, whether they are bunting or swinging.

[VolUmp]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Does the request to "appeal" a bunt offer fit the same parameter as appealing a check swing?

YES. (Really?)

[VolUmp]

(Heard on an unnamed mic'd up MLB ump during and argument over a bunt offer 13 years ago.)

Coach: "Come on, he didn't offer — he was just defending himself!!"

Ump: "I'll give ya that, Coach — and if he's defending himself … WITH F---ING BAT, it's a strike!"

[Mudisfun]

On 7/8/2017 at 10:22 AM, jkumpire said:

Fleas,

I hope the camel population doesn't shrink anytime soon...

I had the same thing happen in a college/adult summer league game recently.  The game was straight OBR, but my partner works only FED, and he didn't know that it was OBR before the game started. I was in A, it was a LH batter and my PU missed the swing, it was clear to everyone in the park, including the batter that he offered at it. The PU refused to check with me when F2 asked, when the manager came out and asked, even when I tipped my hat (pregamed signal for 'I have extra information you need'). It was real hard not to walk in and get involved in the discussion, but I did it. Thankfully after the batter walked he was erased on a double play. because if he scores and there is a protest I would hate to be on the losing side of it and pay a fine (and before you ask, I only found out after the game he did not know it was an OBR rules game).

He is a guy that does not usually ask in FED if the BU is in A with a LH batter, or in B/C with runners on, another issue entirely, but I digress. It is hard to do, but there are times when you just have to stay out of the way and let your partner take his medicine.

 

Got rid of everything in the paragraph but the one thing that caught my attention...

Seriously? You as the official have to pay a FINE if you make a ruling mistake? WOW. I might be naive but I have never heard of the officials having to pay a fine which I bet is higher than their game fee for a mistake. 

[jkumpire]

I think that's the case but I'm not sure. I hope I'm wrong. I'm sure not planning to find out for sure.

[VolUmp]

7 hours ago, Mudisfun said:

Seriously? You as the official have to pay a FINE if you make a ruling mistake? WOW. I might be naive but I have never heard of the officials having to pay a fine which I bet is higher than their game fee for a mistake. 

Mud, I've never heard of such a thing either, but I would have no problem with that being implemented into a local tournament. I can honestly say that it would increase the "give a $hit" factor tenfold among some of the partners I work with around here. 

On the other hand, if the head coach loses his protest (and fee), I think the $$$ should go to the officiating crew, and be split evenly.

[Mudisfun]

20 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Mud, I've never heard of such a thing either, but I would have no problem with that being implemented into a local tournament. I can honestly say that it would increase the "give a $hit" factor  tenfold among some of the partners I work with around here. 

On the other hand, if the head coach loses his protest (and fee), I think the $$$ should go to the officiating crew, and be split evenly.

Luckily I have worked with very, very few officials in So Cal that fit that mold... most if not all the folks I have had the pleasure of working with have, at least on the surface appeared to be caring, at least simi-hardworking officials! But we also are smack in the middle of some of the best youth/young adult, year round baseball grounds to be found anywhere in the country... so that might have something to do with it. Those that suck, are not willing to learn or who are there only for themselves find quickly their antics don't go over well and they are quickly dropped by the assignors.

[VolUmp]

2 hours ago, Mudisfun said:

Those that suck, are not willing to learn or who are there only for themselves find quickly their antics don't go over well and they are quickly dropped by the assignors.

This is our Achille's Heel. 

I'm envious of your situation.