Half Swing Appeal Rules

[DadCoach12u]

Several Q's here.

1) Does a half swing mean for the time being, it has been ruled a ball?

2) Does a checked swing technically mean it has finally been ruled a ball?

3) Does the offense ever have the opportunity to check on a half swing that's called a strike?

4) Depending on the answer to 3, is this consistent among all rule codes?

I would really like the rule refs, casebook refs, or umpire manual on 3/4 in FED if the offense can never appeal.  Neither my son who plays HS nor I can find it.

Thank you all in advance.

[JSam21]

If the pitch is ruled a ball... it is ruled a ball until the swing has been appealed. No the offense can't appeal a check swing strike call. It would fall under arguing balls and strikes.

 

[noumpere]

The FED rule reference is 10-1-4.  Something to the effect of "PU may ask BU if the check swing is such as to be called a strike."

 

OBR is 8.02(c) and is clear that asking can only be done when the pitch is a ball.

[maven]

27 minutes ago, DadCoach12u said:

Several Q's here.

1) Does a half swing mean for the time being, it has been ruled a ball?

2) Does a checked swing technically mean it has finally been ruled a ball?

3) Does the offense ever have the opportunity to check on a half swing that's called a strike?

4) Depending on the answer to 3, is this consistent among all rule codes?

I would really like the rule refs, casebook refs, or umpire manual on 3/4 in FED if the offense can never appeal.  Neither my son who plays HS nor I can find it.

Thank you all in advance.

1. I'm not sure I understand the question. A half-swing is an action of the batter. The pitch is ruled ball/strike by the umpire. The actions are distinct. The defense may appeal the call of "ball" on a half-swing.
2. No, why would they?
3. No, a strike call is always final.
4. Yes.

[VolUmp]

1 hour ago, DadCoach12u said:

Several Q's here.

1) Does a half swing mean for the time being, it has been ruled a ball?

2) Does a checked swing technically mean it has finally been ruled a ball?

3) Does the offense ever have the opportunity to check on a half swing that's called a strike?

4) Depending on the answer to 3, is this consistent among all rule codes?

I would really like the rule refs, casebook refs, or umpire manual on 3/4 in FED if the offense can never appeal.  Neither my son who plays HS nor I can find it.

Thank you all in advance.

Let me take a crack at this. 

1 & 2) If a batter "checked" his swing ... it means he "stopped" it, and did not attempt to hit the pitch.

The problem is that half swing and checked swing are erroneously often used interchangeably.

3 & 4) In OBR (MLB), noumpere answered best.  It is a consistent rule across all brands.

Unfortunately, in FED (High School Rules), the wording isn't quite as clear.  10-1-4a is not worded as well as it needs to be.

There isn't a Casebook play that helps either.

You have to go to the Umpires Manual to get what you're seeking ... and ZERO coaches and FEW umpires ever actually read it.

 

13) Prerequisites for Good Umpiring (Paragraph 3)

Page 6; "Additionally, there are some calls that cannot be changed. These include calls on close force plays, tags on non-force situations where the ball is not dropped, a checked swing when a strike is first called, and the catch or no catch of a fair fly with runners on base.

I don't understand Maven's answer that says, "No, why would they?" I think he misread one of your four points.

We have base coaches all the time asking the plate ump to "get help" or "check him" when the plate ump called a half swing a strike, and the base coaches want the Base Ump to overturn it to a ball.  Cannot be done under any rules set.  (And these are High School Coaches, so don't feel too badly if you didn't know the rule).

So:

1) Only the defense can appeal a half swing (obviously that has been called a ball).

2) Once a pitch is called a strike, it cannot be changed to a ball under any circumstances, whether initially, or on appeal, whether a live ball or a dead ball.

3) A coach may not come out of the dugout or the coach's box to argue the result of an appealed half swing — regardless of the final ruling ... THAT is when it is arguing balls and strikes.  Rats will say, "I'm not arguing balls and strikes, I'm arguing that he didn't go around!"  And that's why they are called rats.  in HS, we put our hand up and say, "Don't take another step!" and if they do, they are immediately restricted.  If they proceed to argue after being restricted, they are ejected for two reasons:  Continuing to argue balls and strikes, and failing to return to the dugout after being restricted.

Let me throw in one last example:

Suppose there are two strikes on the batter, and the plate ump rules that he swung at a pitch and the pitch hit the batter's hand.  The plate ump will declare "TIME" and rule strike three ... batter is out.  It's commonly known as a dead ball strike.  There are offensive base coaches who think they can ask the plate ump for an appeal to determine whether the batter really did swing.  The answer is, "No, coach ... I ruled it a swing, and it cannot be appealed.  Batter is out."  If the plate ump has any question on whether it hit the batter's hand or the bat, which may change it from a strikeout to a foul ball, he is certainly allowed to consult with his partner(s).
 

 

[Guest Nick]

I think what leads to confusion on this topic is the word "Appeal".  What is occurring is not an appeal. 

If PU rules the pitch a strike, end of story case closed. 

If PU rules the batter's action is a swing, end of story case closed. 

If PU rules the pitch a ball, defense can request PU ask BU for a swing ruling because BU may have had a better angle. PU does not have to grant the request, even though it often appears automatic. 

Swing no swing is no different than any other instance where an umpire confers with another umpire to ask if he had a better angle or different view. 

[Rich Ives]

1 minute ago, Guest Nick said:

I think what leads to confusion on this topic is the word "Appeal".  What is occurring is not an appeal. 

If PU rules the pitch a strike, end of story case closed. 

If PU rules the batter's action is a swing, end of story case closed. 

If PU rules the pitch a ball, defense can request PU ask BU for a swing ruling because BU may have had a better angle. PU does not have to grant the request, even though it often appears automatic. 

Swing no swing is no different than any other instance where an umpire confers with another umpire to ask if he had a better angle or different view. 

He does in OBR.  Does not in FED.

[VolUmp]

4 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

He does in OBR.  Does not in FED.

Very true.

 

4 hours ago, Guest Nick said:

I think what leads to confusion on this topic is the word "Appeal".  What is occurring is not an appeal.

INCORRECT.

When the defense properly asks the PU to check a half swing with a BU to see if that BU thinks the batter swung, that is precisely what it's called ... a half swing appeal ... (or a checked swing appeal).

The word is often misused in many other instances where a coach asks the umpire who just made a call (with which he disagrees), if he may "appeal" the call.

NO, he may not. He may politely request the first official to confer with (get help from) another official.  This includes a pulled foot, a swipe tag, a hit by pitch, and other fairly common happenings.

in no case apart from the half swing appeal, shall an umpire actually transfer the authority and jurisdiction of the call to another umpire.

[KenBAZ]

This is the second thread where I keep seeing the idea of not checking on a swing/no swing in FED. I'm aware we are not required by rule to go to our partner on a check swing appeal during a game played under FED rules. However, to me this is a difference without a distinction. In all but the most agrevious cases, I'm checking if asked. In fact that was the direction we were given by my HS association. I have confidence in my crews command of the process. I work hundreds of games a year where I'm required to check. It keeps things simple, keeps coaches happy, why not just check if asked?

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[ALStripes17]

INCORRECT.
When the defense properly asks the PU to check a half swing with a BU to see if that BU thinks the batter swung, that is precisely what it's called ... a half swing appeal ... (or a checked swing appeal).
The word is often misused in many other instances where a coach asks the umpire who just made a call (with which he disagrees), if he may "appeal" the call.
NO, he may not. He may politely request the first official to confer with (get help from) another official.  This includes a pulled foot, a swipe tag, a hit by pitch, and other fairly common happenings.
in no case apart from the half swing appeal, shall an umpire actually transfer the authority and jurisdiction of the call to another umpire.

Quite honestly, I still want to believe it's my call to change as a PU after checking with the BU. He gave me more info to which I change the call with the response, "Then, that's a strike" accompanied with the strike mechanic and the count.

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[maven]

4 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

Quite honestly, I still want to believe it's my call to change as a PU after checking with the BU. He gave me more info to which I change the call with the response, "Then, that's a strike" accompanied with the strike mechanic and the count.

You should. It's correct.

[Jimurray]

3 minutes ago, maven said:

You should. It's correct.

Until you encounter the Voluntary Strike in codes where asking is required.

[noumpere]

21 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Until you encounter the Voluntary Strike in codes where asking is required.

The PU still makes the final strike call.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

The PU still makes the final strike call.

The PBUC wording is if you (the BU) are going to reverse the PU call. But I don't think they wanted that to be a literal reversal.

[beerguy55]

On 5/24/2017 at 3:33 PM, noumpere said:

The PU still makes the final strike call.

 

On 5/24/2017 at 3:00 PM, ALStripes17 said:

Quite honestly, I still want to believe it's my call to change as a PU after checking with the BU. He gave me more info to which I change the call with the response, "Then, that's a strike" accompanied with the strike mechanic and the count.

 

This would suggest that upon going to BU, and BU saying "yes he went" that the PU could still say "nah, he didn't" - that, at least in OBR, is not true.

In Fed, if you are allowed to decide whether or not you want to ask the BU for help, are you also allowed, once asking for help, to decide you don't agree with BU's opinion?

[ALStripes17]

This would suggest that upon going to BU, and BU saying "yes he went" that the PU could still say "nah, he didn't" - that, at least in OBR, is not true.
In Fed, if you are allowed to decide whether or not you want to ask the BU for help, are you also allowed, once asking for help, to decide you don't agree with BU's opinion?

We are allowed to do that when we get together and conference on other calls too. The original call is mine and mine to change... Now what sort of idiot would that make me if everyone publicly got the additional info and I didn't change it? That would be a game management issue... And honestly, no umpire that actually reads the rules/mechanics to that level would be dumb enough to keep the original 'Ball' call anyway. Other umpires really don't even know how the 'my call, additional info' stuff works anyway. They just go by standard practice and what's seen on TV.

It's mere formality, balls and strikes belong to the PU.

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[noumpere]

9 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

 

This would suggest that upon going to BU, and BU saying "yes he went" that the PU could still say "nah, he didn't" - that, at least in OBR, is not true.

In Fed, if you are allowed to decide whether or not you want to ask the BU for help, are you also allowed, once asking for help, to decide you don't agree with BU's opinion?

1) No, it doesn't.  It means that when BU says, "yes, he did," PU then indicates , "Then it's a strike," and gives the mechanic.

2) No.

[BrianC14]

19 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

 

This would suggest that upon going to BU, and BU saying "yes he went" that the PU could still say "nah, he didn't" - that, at least in OBR, is not true.

In Fed, if you are allowed to decide whether or not you want to ask the BU for help, are you also allowed, once asking for help, to decide you don't agree with BU's opinion?

And then here's what would follow from that:

 

 

[beerguy55]

"Hey, what are you doing?"

"Stealing your woman."

"Take her"

[VolUmp]

On 5/24/2017 at 4:33 PM, noumpere said:

The PU still makes the final strike call.

The PU, at that point, has zero influence or jurisdiction — he's the messenger. 

[MT73]

On 5/24/2017 at 3:59 PM, VolUmp said:

Very true.

 

INCORRECT.

When the defense properly asks the PU to check a half swing with a BU to see if that BU thinks the batter swung, that is precisely what it's called ... a half swing appeal ... (or a checked swing appeal).

The word is often misused in many other instances where a coach asks the umpire who just made a call (with which he disagrees), if he may "appeal" the call.

NO, he may not. He may politely request the first official to confer with (get help from) another official.  This includes a pulled foot, a swipe tag, a hit by pitch, and other fairly common happenings.

in no case apart from the half swing appeal, shall an umpire actually transfer the authority and jurisdiction of the call to another umpire.

A checked swing "appeal" is not an appeal.

Check the definition of what an appeal actually is and how it can be executed.

It only involves missing a base or improperly tagging up--or BOO

 

[VolUmp]

2 hours ago, MT73 said:

A checked swing "appeal" is not an appeal.

Check the definition of what an appeal actually is and how it can be executed.

It only involves missing a base or improperly tagging up.

Correct.  It's a misnomer.  But it's the word the faulty book uses.

[noumpere]

16 hours ago, MT73 said:

A checked swing "appeal" is not an appeal.

Check the definition of what an appeal actually is and how it can be executed.

It only involves missing a base or improperly tagging up.

 

Okay -- Here's the OBR definition:

An APPEAL is the act of a fielder in claiming violation of the rules
by the offensive team.

 

And the wording regarding a checked swing:

Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball
and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to
a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing.

 

[MT73]

11 hours ago, noumpere said:

Okay -- Here's the OBR definition:

An APPEAL is the act of a fielder in claiming violation of the rules
by the offensive team.

 

And the wording regarding a checked swing:

Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball
and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to
a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing.

 

A checked swing appeal has nothing to do with a violation of the rules therefore, by definition, it is not an appeal.

Perhaps one day it will be termed what it is-- a request.

 

 

[beerguy55]

15 hours ago, MT73 said:

A checked swing appeal has nothing to do with a violation of the rules therefore, by definition, it is not an appeal.

Perhaps one day it will be termed what it is-- a request.

 

 

And this is where we cross the boundary from the language of baseball to the language of English.

An appeal is a request....an appeal simply has a more narrow context in the usage of the two words.

[Cav]

And Yogi said, "If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be."