Wondering the Boards Thoughts on this play

[stkjock]

http://baseballfam.com/youth-catcher-destroys-runner-trying-score/

[udbrky]

I think I originally saw this in the dictionary under "malicious contact"

[maven]

http://baseballfam.com/youth-catcher-destroys-runner-trying-score/

What are your thoughts?

[stkjock]

34 minutes ago, maven said:

What are your thoughts?

well, I'm conflicted, as I understand the rules, it's the runners obligation to slide or avoid contact at nearly all youth levels.  I know LLI that is in fact the rule.

So with that in mind, this runner makes no attempt at either, he runs straight into the tag at full speed.  The catcher puts the glove out to make the tag. 

Clearly the impact is dramatic, now it that because of the momentum of the runner, the physics involved and the size difference between the players.  Does the irresistible force impacting the immovable object cause the inertia of the runners head and helmet to collide and thus the loud sound and adult outrage.

Did the catcher throw his hands out after contact... could be, however, he doesn't run thru the runner either. 

 

I tend to be a bit old school in my thinking and to me it was just a baseball play..... However, I've had no umpire training and could see it be called MC on F2 as well. 

[udbrky]

I saw him shove the guy. Sure, the runner was an idiot and should've given up. But F2 knocked him on his donkey.

[kylehutson]

Something from my neck of the woods. Both of these teams' high schools play in the same league as the school where I live, and this was less than 30 miles from me (in rural Kansas, that's what we call "local").

As for the video itself, I don't have MC. MC has to be intentional, and at I don't have that here in rec ball. I see the catcher just trying to keep the tag on. If anything, the runner is the one leaning into it.

[stevis]

Yeah, full speed, I've got a baseball play made by kids without enough baseball experience to make a better one.  Catcher didn't need to run at him but I didn't see a shove--I saw him run at a runner and apply a tag, and a runner who didn't slide or attempt to get around.

[Rich Ives]

4 hours ago, stkjock said:

well, I'm conflicted, as I understand the rules, it's the runners obligation to slide or avoid contact at nearly all youth levels.  I know LLI that is in fact the rule.

 

 

No one requires avoidance.  Many require an attempt to avoid - success not required.

And the LL rule is  "Slide or attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag". "Avoid" is not in the rule. Success is not required. And FWIW  hurdling is legal.

[stkjock]

Thank you for the clarification Rich. 

[maven]

I've got MC.

The runner is not expecting contact 8 feet from the plate, and probably wondering how to slide around the batter. F2 sees him coming, lines him up, and is still moving into him at contact: that's not a tag, it's an attempt to punish.

[Kevin_K]

8 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

 

No one requires avoidance.  Many require an attempt to avoid - success not required.

And the LL rule is  "Slide or attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag". "Avoid" is not in the rule. Success is not required. And FWIW  hurdling is legal.

What are your thoughts from the dark side Rich?

[Rich Ives]

49 minutes ago, Kevin_K said:

What are your thoughts from the dark side Rich?

Get the rule right.

[maven]

4 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Get the rule right.

That's not dark, as it implies no attempt to gain an advantage not intended by rule.

[Rich Ives]

2 hours ago, maven said:

That's not dark, as it implies no attempt to gain an advantage not intended by rule.

Which is what I meant.

And it was stkjock that had it wrong.

[Mudisfun]

I've got an umpire in flip flops! That is worth of ejection right there!

Oh yeah an MC by F2 who blew up R3. That was not a baseball play/tag. No reason to shove into the runner.

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[kylehutson]

You guys who are calling this MC haven't done much 10U rec ball. ...and this is obviously rec ball precisely because the umpire is in shorts and flip-flops. I don't see the catcher doing anything except trying to put a tag on the runner. He's not shoving, he's just trying to make sure he has the tag. How do i know? Look at his reaction - he's not towering over the runner, and not looking to make another play elsewhere. If anything, he looks confused as to what he should be doing next. Most of the guys I see at this age are tagging the runner just like that (arms outstretched, both hands on the ball), but in this case the runner is running towards him rather than to the side or away from him, and he doesn't appear to know how to handle that.

[scrounge]

I don't have any problem with this at all. The player had his hands fully within his frame, didn't lower the crown of the helmet at all, no launch or upward thrust, this is a completely clean block.

 

Oh, it's still June? Sorry, wrong sport. Hell yea it's MC. Not even a 2nd thought at chucking this youngster, 10U or not. Too hard, too high, too callous....too bad.

[MadMax]

I've been reserved from commenting on this because I'm honestly torn on how to rule on this, all things – including that this is 10-year old "local" baseball – considered. That catcher probably outweighs that R3 by 20-30 pounds, and you don't need a degree in Newtonian physics to explain what's going to happen. That being said, that catcher isn't shoving, but he sure isn't trying to put a tag onto R3; instead, it's more a "stand-my-ground, you-ain't-scoring-on-me" posture. The yutz (that "umpire" with a raft, shorts and his hat backwards) probably did the only good thing a baseball-following adult, with what he directed the catcher to do – stop standing there and go over there to apologize and check on the poor roadkill ragdoll kid you laid out collided with.

I'm with @maven @Mudisfun and @scrounge on this one, though... the severity of the impact – even contextual to 10-year olds – is outside the rules and spirit of the game. I wouldn't make this big, demonstrative ballyhoo about it, but I'd do this... Quietly get both coaches together and say, "We have an out, but Coach (DTHC), we've gotta take your catcher out of the ballgame. Let's get him off the field and in the dugout, and I trust you'll explain to him that we can't have collisions like this. Thanks." To make a show of Ejecting him would just embroil any of the parents and fans in attendance, and likely make the environment outside the fence more testy and tenuous, especially if the youngster is outside the dugout. Again, this is 10-year old local baseball.

[Ump29]

I have nothing.

[stkjock]

1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

Which is what I meant.

And it was stkjock that had it wrong.

Well in this case he never attempted either.

[Thunderheads]

That's MC ALL DAY LONG 

[EMump]

To me the catcher is guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. He leads with his helmet and was running at the runner with intent to make exsessive contact.

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[maven]

52 minutes ago, EMump said:

To me the catcher is guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. He leads with his helmet and was running at the runner with intent to make exsessive contact.

So, personal foul for spearing, 15 yard penalty, or USC? One act can't be penalized twice in football.

[Richvee]

FWIW, I think the only reason we don't have MC on R3 is because he's small. For those who say MC on F2, since when does size and weight dictate who's the offending player in a MC call? I see big 10-11 year old waiting to tag a pipsqueak R3 without a lot of common sense who runs full speed into a brick wall.

Let's reverse the kids here....Little squirt of an F2 steps up preparing to put a tag on the future offensive tackle of the Nebraska Cornhuskers who runs straight through F2, knocking him into next Tuesday. Essentially the same play. Each and every one of us will say MC on R3.

[stkjock]

Get outa here with that common sense stuff @Richvee