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Uncaught third strike mechanic

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This topic came up in multiple umpire internet bulletin boards without any official explanation. I hope this thread makes to those in charge of training at pro school and we can get a response.  It has been stated that pro schools teach umpires (PU) not to verbalize caught/uncaught third strikes that are not-obvious (where batter/runner can advance). It seems that the only two players that would need to know the umpire's decision on this play (BR/F2) are facing away from PU (who hopefully will at least be giving a non-verbal mechanic). BR/F2's choices would be to take their eyes off what they were doing to look back for PU's non-verbal mechanic (if there is one to see) or to guess what PU has for a call. 

I have been trained (at clinics run by D-1 NCAA umpires) to verbalize both not-obvious caught and uncaught K3 (for the reasons given above). What is pro schools reasoning for not verbalizing the uncaught/caught strike three mechanic? 

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9 minutes ago, ricka56 said:

This topic came up in multiple umpire internet bulletin boards without any reputable explanation. I hope this thread makes to those in charge of training at pro school and we can get a response.  It has been stated that pro schools teach umpires (PU) not to verbalize caught/uncaught third strikes that are not-obvious (where batter/runner can advance). It seems that the only two players that would need to know the umpire's decision on this play (BR/F2) are facing away from PU (who hopefully will at least be giving a non-verbal mechanic). BR/F2's choices would be to take their eyes off what they were doing to look back for PU's non-verbal mechanic (if there is one to see) or to guess what PU has for a call. 

I have been trained (at clinics run by D-1 NCAA umpires) to verbalize both not-obvious caught and uncaught K3 (for the reasons given above). What is pro schools reasoning for not verbalizing the uncaught/caught strike three mechanic? 

Maybe if you don't verbalize a catch/no catch, especially when you are not sure, the catcher will tell you what you had by his actions. Most good catchers will tag the batter right away on any close trap/catch.

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29 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Maybe if you don't verbalize a catch/no catch, especially when you are not sure, the catcher will tell you what you had by his actions. Have you never had F2 try to sell you a C3K on a trap/U3K ? Most good catchers will tag the batter right away on any close trap/catch.  But not always 

Hope that's not too sore a subject still, but a verbalized U3K probably would have eliminated that controversy.  

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I recall many years ago that verbal "Strike 3. Ball's on the ground" was considered to give the BR an advantage. I have been away from it since the early 2000's. I've heard that the strike is called as usual, (verbally if a zone strike, the hammer and no voice if swinging 3K) and a "half safe"sign is given when the ball is dropped. Is that what you are asking about?

That would be good to clarify - how does the pro school want it done?

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Guest Rob S

I think you have to verbalize on a called U3K, because (a) no verbal might be construed as a ball, and (b) usually a called strike is to the glove (not in the dirt) and batter would expect it to be caught.  Is it batter's responsibility to look back to check if umpire has called it a strike and confirm that ball was caught?  That would give him a big disadvantage in delaying his break for first base.    

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16 minutes ago, Guest Rob S said:

I think you have to verbalize on a called U3K, because (a) no verbal might be construed as a ball, and (b) usually a called strike is to the glove (not in the dirt) and batter would expect it to be caught.  Is it batter's responsibility to look back to check if umpire has called it a strike and confirm that ball was caught?  That would give him a big disadvantage in delaying his break for first base.    

One more point on this...   If batter has to look at umpire for signal, AND look at ball for catch / no-catch, that's asking him to look at two things at once, when his focus should be on running down the line.

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I try to let the play dictate what mechanics to use. Remember that our safe mechanic has many meanings....."Safe", "No catch", "that's Nothing", "balls in play" etc. To everyone else, safe mechanic only looks like safe. So I try to use it only when the situation calls for it.

- On DK3 I will give my swinging strike Mechanic (pointing strike mechanic) with arm extended.

- If it is unclear to the off. or def. that the ball was dropped (i.e. short hop), i will also give a verbal "No Catch"

- I take a read step right or left as needed to see the possible tag attempt.

- If tag is made, I give my OUT mechanic.

- If tag is attempted and missed, I will give the SAFE mechanic.

- If no tag attempt is made, I will leave my right arm extended until runner steps out of the dirt circle then give.a casual "no catch" mechanic. 

Here are a few video clips from one of my recent games of the mechanics mentioned above.

 

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Nice video demonstration. It seems like NCAA umpires verbalize the U3K (D1 clinic guys taught us that). But from what I hear, the pro baseball umpires have been taught not to verbalize. I just don't understand why. 

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nope.. pro ball too... "no catch" you ( the PU) need to give both the F2 and BR a chance.. if you do not verbalize then you are just helping the defense.

 

 FYI if your not sure look at your BU as they should have a signal for you too help.

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8 hours ago, Haid D' Salaami said:

Anyone know who the PU is in these videos..?

@Fittske24, who posted them.

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I have adopted the 'point' strike call just for the D3K situation. You give the swinging strike mechanic (point), verbalize and signal 'no catch', clear the catcher and locate the ball, if a tag is made near the plate, signal the out (hammer). If there are less than 2 outs and a runner at first, I will point the strike 3, and verbalize "batter is out", while giving the out mechanic. 

As the BU, I will give the open-close fist signal with my right hand, to assist in whether the ball is caught or not. 

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1 hour ago, Fittske24 said:

Yours truly.. ;)

I like the mechanic.  Any thought to going first base extended in clearing the catcher for the swipe tag/running lane interference?

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On 9/2/2016 at 3:17 PM, GPblue said:

I like the mechanic.  Any thought to going first base extended in clearing the catcher for the swipe tag/running lane interference?

I probably wouldn't go 1BLEX...one, it puts you further away from the playing action down at first, two, you may get straight lined  by the runner running to first and could miss the pulled foot/swipe tag. Clearing to the right on D3K gives you a look at the possible tag attempt by F2 and puts you in good position to see the complete play.

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On 9/4/2016 at 7:04 PM, Fittske24 said:

I probably wouldn't go 1BLEX...one, it puts you further away from the playing action down at first, two, you may get straight lined  by the runner running to first and could miss the pulled foot/swipe tag. Clearing to the right on D3K gives you a look at the possible tag attempt by F2 and puts you in good position to see the complete play.

I usually get on the 1b line, but after thinking about what you said I will probably give that a try.

 

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On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 3:23 PM, ricka56 said:

This topic came up in multiple umpire internet bulletin boards without any official explanation. I hope this thread makes to those in charge of training at pro school and we can get a response.  It has been stated that pro schools teach umpires (PU) not to verbalize caught/uncaught third strikes that are not-obvious (where batter/runner can advance). It seems that the only two players that would need to know the umpire's decision on this play (BR/F2) are facing away from PU (who hopefully will at least be giving a non-verbal mechanic). BR/F2's choices would be to take their eyes off what they were doing to look back for PU's non-verbal mechanic (if there is one to see) or to guess what PU has for a call. 

I have been trained (at clinics run by D-1 NCAA umpires) to verbalize both not-obvious caught and uncaught K3 (for the reasons given above). What is pro schools reasoning for not verbalizing the uncaught/caught strike three mechanic? 

Ive always been trained as the field umpire to always point down if I can see it hit the ground or close a fist and hold it about 10-15 degrees out from my hip if I see it caught. No need to verbally communicate it but do it on every 3rd strike incase your partner didn't see. "Secondary responsibility"

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Watching the World Baseball Classic and thought this was interesting.

 

Uncaught 3rd strike, you can hear PU saying "no catch no catch no catch" and signaling by pointing away from his body.

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On Thu Dec 22 2016 at 3:15 AM, udbrky said:

Watching the World Baseball Classic and thought this was interesting.

 

Uncaught 3rd strike, you can hear PU saying "no catch no catch no catch" and signaling by pointing away from his body.

Wait. When was there a WBC game on? I know Thursday night (ok way early Friday morning) MLB Network has the ABC All Star Game.

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On 12/23/2016 at 9:26 PM, BT_Blue said:

Wait. When was there a WBC game on? I know Thursday night (ok way early Friday morning) MLB Network has the ABC All Star Game.

About 6 am EST on the 22nd :)

 

I dunno, I fell asleep at my desk watching TV and woke up and it was on.

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10 hours ago, udbrky said:

About 6 am EST on the 22nd :)

 

I dunno, I fell asleep at my desk watching TV and woke up and it was on.

Damn it! I really could use some baseball on tv. I'm kind of jonesing for it.

Still annoyed I had to get to sleep cause I wake up early for work. Made me miss the ABL All-Star Game.

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5 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

Damn it! I really could use some baseball on tv. I'm kind of jonesing for it.

Still annoyed I had to get to sleep cause I wake up early for work. Made me miss the ABL All-Star Game.

There's full MLB games on YouTube but replays just aren't the same for me. 

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On Thu Dec 29 2016 at 0:53 AM, Stk004 said:

There's full MLB games on YouTube but replays just aren't the same for me. 

Yeh... I tend to only watch live. I don't even DVR.

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