Ball hit off mask

[Gfoley4]

R1/R3 under OBR.

R1 goes on the pitch. Batter fouls it directly off catcher's mask and it bounces up towards 1st base dugout. Umpire first calls "foul ball" but then watches the catcher make a spectacular diving catch. R1 is standing on second and defense throws to first in an apparent appeal. What should be the call here?

[zoops]

Sounds like the correct call.  No appeal allowed since the ball is dead on the foul ball.  Even if it were strike 3, I believe the ball has to hit the mitt first in order to be a foul tip/caught third strike.  

[ricka56]

Sounds like the correct call.  No appeal allowed since the ball is dead on the foul ball.  Even if it were strike 3, I believe the ball has to hit the mitt first in order to be a foul tip/caught third strike.  

It's not a foul tip, it is a foul ball caught in flight if the ball was live. I believe in OBR, you can fix an incorrect foul ball call, but some plays aren't fixable when the incorrect call affects what happened following. A case can be made either way. And either way, someone is going to take a verbal beating.

[basejester]

Similar Thread

[noumpere]

A case can be made either way.

Not a good case.

 

It's a foul ball.  Period.

[basejester]

It's not a catch.  I think the rules support is hiding in the definition of foul tip (which this is clearly not). 

A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat
to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless
caught and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. It
is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first touched the
catcher’s glove or hand.

 

Edited July 25, 2015 by basejester
Removed extra "is".

[ricka56]

Similar Thread

That was an interesting read. Folks were using the foul tip rule to conclude that the OP isn't an out. They rightly point out that the foul tip rule says that a ball that doesn't touch the mitt first is not a foul tip, it is a foul ball. So then if you look at the definition of a foul ball it says, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player. If a fly ball over foul territory is bobbled (touched) by F2 and caught by F5 before touching the ground, that is a live-ball and an out. Just because a batted ball touches a player over foul territory does not make a dead/foul ball/no-catch. So the foul ball definition includes dead balls and not dead balls.  And the no-mitt-touch foul tip rule is consistent with the foul ball rule. The OP is a foul ball. But a foul ball can be caught.

I don't see any rule that makes the OP a dead/foul ball (other than perhaps the umpire declaring it so).

 

[JaxRolo]

Once it hit the mask nothing else can happen.

[mrumpiresir]

That was an interesting read. Folks were using the foul tip rule to conclude that the OP isn't an out. They rightly point out that the foul tip rule says that a ball that doesn't touch the mitt first is not a foul tip, it is a foul ball. So then if you look at the definition of a foul ball it says, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player. If a fly ball over foul territory is bobbled (touched) by F2 and caught by F5 before touching the ground, that is a live-ball and an out. Just because a batted ball touches a player over foul territory does not make a dead/foul ball/no-catch. So the foul ball definition includes dead balls and not dead balls.  And the no-mitt-touch foul tip rule is consistent with the foul ball rule. The OP is a foul ball. But a foul ball can be caught.

I don't see any rule that makes the OP a dead/foul ball (other than perhaps the umpire declaring it so).

 

A pitch  which is tipped and goes sharp and direct to the mitt and is held is a foul tip.  

A pitch  which is tipped and goes sharp and direct to the mask is a foul ball. It is immediately dead and cannot be caught for an out.

In the OP the correct call is foul ball, no out.

[noumpere]

 

I don't see any rule that makes the OP a dead/foul ball (other than perhaps the umpire declaring it so).

 

If it's foul, and it can't be caught , then how can it be anything except dead?

 

I suppose it could be more clear -- but so could 234 other things in OBR.

[MadMax]

Please allow me to present an actual occurrence that will help clarify and/or support several umpires' ruling-replies of "It (the OP) is a Foul ball".

Count is X balls (irrelevant) - 2 strikes. Batter swings, makes contact, and the ball goes directly up and back so as to neatly lodge between F2's mask and CP. It is stuck there for a quick moment, and as F2 stands up, he grabs it with his bare hand. PU partner, in a "Ain't never seen that before!" moment rules it a catch, and is in the process of calling the batter out when I'm headed in from A declaring it a foul ball. I was a catcher for 20 years, and I never got that lucky to make a "catch" like that! My PU partner met me at around the 45 mark, and looked spooked... "That doesn't seem right," he began, "but I had to call it something." "It's a foul ball. A foul tip has to be directly to the glove and/or hand of the catcher. Anything else involved back there, it's a simple foul." "Oh yeah, you're right... helluva weird snag, though, isn't it?" I started trotting back to A, replying, "I never saw one of those first-hand!" PU ruled it a Foul ball, and the at-bat continued.

 

[Rich Ives]

That was an interesting read. Folks were using the foul tip rule to conclude that the OP isn't an out. They rightly point out that the foul tip rule says that a ball that doesn't touch the mitt first is not a foul tip, it is a foul ball. So then if you look at the definition of a foul ball it says, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player. If a fly ball over foul territory is bobbled (touched) by F2 and caught by F5 before touching the ground, that is a live-ball and an out. Just because a batted ball touches a player over foul territory does not make a dead/foul ball/no-catch. So the foul ball definition includes dead balls and not dead balls.  And the no-mitt-touch foul tip rule is consistent with the foul ball rule. The OP is a foul ball. But a foul ball can be caught.

I don't see any rule that makes the OP a dead/foul ball (other than perhaps the umpire declaring it so).

 

Read the rule quote in basejester's post. Especially the bolded part.

[Cav]

NFHS 2.16.1D

Comment: (4) A pitch touches the bat of B2. In (a), it goes directly to F2's glove, then to his protector and rebounds into his hand or glove or (b) it goes directly to F2's protector or mask and rebounds into his hand or glove. In (a), it is a foul tip and a catch. In (b), the ball becomes dead when it touches the body of F2 and is an uncaught foul. In a related situation, a foul ball rises and comes down to strike the catcher's mask or protector and then rebounds into his hand. It is a caught foul. B2 is out and the ball remains live. [my emphasis]

 

Edited July 25, 2015 by Cav
too much bold