Plate Meeting Management

[bluejerred]

Had a tourney last weekend.  Was on a break and then was on the bases for the next game.  My partner had issues with a team during his game when I was on break.  Same team was on the same field for the next game.  When coaches were called, one of the assistants came out to the meeting instead of the head coach.  My partner tells the AC that the head coach needs to be at the plate meeting.  AC begins to argue with my partner using the excuses such as "never been a problem before, etc."  Partner insists that the HC comes out.  HC begins to hobble out of the dugout saying that he tweaked his back when he flew out of the dugout to argue a call in the prior game.  (I find out later that the same HC didn't show up at the plate meeting the game before and the umpires initially thought he was an AC when he came out).  We eventually get through the plate meeting but the tensions were obviously high.  

Have any of you seen anything like this where HC's feel they are too good to come out to a plate meeting or send a designated coach?  What would your actions be for the above situations?  (AC's being initially non-compliant at the plate meeting, HC who didn't come to the plate meeting flying out of a dugout to argue, etc.)

Edited July 14, 2015 by bluejerred

[NovaScotiaBlue]

I don't believe there is a rule saying the Manager(Coach) needs to be present at the plate meeting or hand in the line up. Simply identify who's signature is at the bottom of the line up. Confirm he is the manager . Now you know the only person that will be speaking on behalf of the team. 

 

[BillKen]

IMHO, it isn't a big deal in most games...plate meetings are stupid most of the time.  Personally, if I had problems with a coach, I really wouldn't want him at the plate meeting anyway...why thorw gas on the fire?  I know...rules are rules.  Every organization is different...so when in Rome.  If the HC didn't come out, I'd restrict if that was the norm.

[DVA7130]

Who ever comes out is the manager. Inform them of this, if he still doesn't come you can treat the hotshot like an AC.

[lawump]

It depends on rules/level.  In MLB/MiLB the manager often comes out for the first game of the series and that's it.  Assistants come out the rest of the series.  In FED the head coach is required to attend.  

As to how I would handle the situation in the OP:  first, know what rule set you are using.  Second, if it's FED, tell the AC that the HC must attend by rule.  Third, if it is FED and the HC refuses to attend restrict him to the dugout.  Fourth, if you're using OBR, just conduct the plate conference with the AC.

Edited July 14, 2015 by lawump
fix typo

[ricka56]

I agree with what others have written. I'll only add that we need to pick our battles wisely. Outside of Fed games. If I know who the HC is (who I'll be dealing with during the game), I don't care who comes out for the plate meeting. Problem (though not a major one) is when I wrongly assume that the guy at the plate meeting is the HC, but that'll sort itself out soon enough if need be.

This past season, my town's HS HC hired the son of a sure-fire hall of fame HC from the next town over to be on the staff. The local HC sent the son out to do the plate meeting when his father's school came to town. Some official photographer was snapping pictures of the father/son event and I'm glad that it never occurred to either of us umpires that this was against the rules. It was pretty cool.

 

[Platejob29]

Just leave it alone. There is no reason even in FED to make the HC attend the plate meeting. Even if by rule it says in FED that he is required to you're just grabbing the wrong end of the stick on it. No one is going to protest the game because that rule wasn't enforced and if by some random act of God a manager decides to protest the game on that it's not going to be upheld. 

[LMSANS]

Fed requires HC because he has to certify legal equipment.

[Tksjewelry]

By the second (third-fourth) game of a tournament, they could send Santa out to the plate meeting because it's usually "alright gentlemen, same stuff as earlier, who wants to call the flip?" 

[Rich Ives]

By the second (third-fourth) game of a tournament, they could send Santa out to the plate meeting because it's usually "alright gentlemen, same stuff as earlier, who wants to call the flip?" 

Why are you waiting until the plate meeting for the flip?

[Tksjewelry]

Why are you waiting until the plate meeting for the flip?

That's when it's always done here. That's all I've ever seen.

[Rich Ives]

Who sits in which dugout? Do they arm-wrestle for it a half-hour before the game?

[noumpere]

Who sits in which dugout? Do they arm-wrestle for it a half-hour before the game?

Shots of Tequila until one of them can no  longer stand.

 

Seriously, there are many ways to handle the dugout and the home team determination, and none of them really matter, and none of them have anything to do with the OP.

[Jimurray]

Who sits in which dugout? Do they arm-wrestle for it a half-hour before the game?

The first team there gets the shady dugout. Which dugout is designated as home varies with the league/venue/tournament. If they end up in the wrong dugout they can switch which I've I haven't seen happen. Also when they have a DH nobody wants to switch if the flip goes different.

[Rich Ives]

The first team there gets the shady dugout. Which dugout is designated as home varies with the league/venue/tournament. If they end up in the wrong dugout they can switch which I've I haven't seen happen. Also when they have a DH nobody wants to switch if the flip goes different.

I've seen teams switch. Often. Of course that's when the flip is at a reasonable time to allow it. I can't see any valid reason for delaying it until the plate meeting when you can easily do it prior to setting up the venue.

Most times in my neck of the woods there are either designated H/V dugouts OR the flip winner gets H/V or dugout choice and the other team gets the remaining choice.

It can matter.

I cannot imagine why on earth having a DH has anything to do with it.

[noumpere]

I've seen teams switch. Often. Of course that's when the flip is at a reasonable time to allow it. I can't see any valid reason for delaying it until the plate meeting when you can easily do it prior to setting up the venue.

Most times in my neck of the woods there are either designated H/V dugouts OR the flip winner gets H/V or dugout choice and the other team gets the remaining choice.

It can matter.

I cannot imagine why on earth having a DH has anything to do with it.

The key phrase in all this

Double Header, not designated hitter.  If a team is playing two games in a row on the same field, they aren't (in most locations; ymmv) going to switch dugouts just because they were H and are now V, etc.

 

[HokieUmp]

Since we're hijacking....

Dear Lord, why does it matter which dugout they're using, if the coin flip is at the plate meeting?

Here's how you know which one's the home team's dugout:  the team that got the right to be home team thanks to that coin toss?  Well, that's the home team dugout right there.

"But the [1st/3rd] base dugout is the one the home team ALWAYS uses!"

Me:  "So?"

Aaaaaaannd.... scene.

There are a lot of electrons that gave their lives for nothing over this, kids.  Including this post, too.

[kylehutson]

Since we're hijacking....

Dear Lord, why does it matter which dugout they're using, if the coin flip is at the plate meeting?

Here's how you know which one's the home team's dugout:  the team that got the right to be home team thanks to that coin toss?  Well, that's the home team dugout right there.

"But the [1st/3rd] base dugout is the one the home team ALWAYS uses!"

Me:  "So?"

Aaaaaaannd.... scene.

There are a lot of electrons that gave their lives for nothing over this, kids.  Including this post, too.

Continuing the hijack....

Sometimes there are reasons for silly rules. The youth wreck league I coached had the rule that "3rd base is for the home team" because a groundskeeper came out at ~3:00 for a ~6:00 game to setup the field and there was a little old lady sweltering in 100 degree heat sitting in a dugout. When asked what she was doing, she was the grandmother of one of the players and the coach (her son, maybe?) had asked her to get there before anybody else to save the "good" dugout for their team. (In these cases, H/V is determined by seeding)

[MObetterBlue]

For the tournaments I work - pool play - Friday nights we can usually expect the HCs for the meeting as they usually have everything set up before they get there.  Saturdays we may see ACs at the meetings because the HC might be trying to make some last minute changes or whatnot.  It's never mattered because I make it very clear at the meeting that issues will only be discussed with the HC. 

Our coin flips are always at the plate meeting as well unless the coaches have gotten together beforehand and done it themselves.  Either way is fine with me and it's never mattered which dugout they've found themselves in.  It's always first come, first choice.

Bracket play - dugout choice is moot as well because a team may have just played and then be waiting on a team from another field, not knowing if they're the higher or lower seed.  In my few years, no one's ever requested to change dugouts.

[ZebraStripes]

The only place I have seen the dugout change is at CDP.  

[Aging_Arbiter]

I can see an advantage of winning a coin flip by choosing home or away.  Does dugout selection REALLY matter?  I fail to see ANY strategy involved.

[Jimurray]

I can see an advantage of winning a coin flip by choosing home or away.  Does dugout selection REALLY matter?  I fail to see ANY strategy involved.

I've seen teams limited to one adult base coach want the 1B dugout. Then of course you have to tell them no when they get a triple and they want to swap boxes in the middle of an inning.

[Aging_Arbiter]

I've seen teams limited to one adult base coach want the 1B dugout. Then of course you have to tell them no when they get a triple and they want to swap boxes in the middle of an inning.

So again...............no advantage to dugout selection.  Agreed?

[kylehutson]

I've been on fields where one dugout is advantageous.

e.g., field faces the SW. 3B dugout is facing right into the sun. 1B dugout still has significant shade. It's not an advantage as far as gameplay goes, but certainly is for morale and comfort. Whether or not discomfort translates to poor gameplay is left as an exercise to the reader.

[Majordave]

When I coached my legion team hosted tournaments. We wrote it into tourney rules. "Host team shall always be in 3B dugout regardless of whether or not they are home team for a particular game or not."

There was a definite advantage for that dugout in afternoons. The 1B dugout was a Dutch oven. You would roast in that dugout. 

Now, the team moved into 1B dugout permanently. They built a locker room and coaches office with AC and a restroom into the rear of the old 1B dugout and they have electricity and fans mounted. Real home field advantage. 

Winning brings in the money. People step all over themselves to give that program money now.