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Pulled foot...

stl_ump

By stl_ump
in Umpire Mechanics

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Majordave
Majordave

Aaaaaaand BOOOOOM! Jeff unleashed his thunder and cleaned up our fun little alter pastime of a website from the likes of another malcontent who does not play well with others. Thanks Jeff. Good EJ.

Jocko
Jocko

Gentlemen, this is the perfect EJ. The acknowledgement, the warning..... Personal+Prolonged+Profane = KABOOM!!!!!!!!

grayhawk
grayhawk

I'm curious to know why you see it that way.  I have heard it taught both ways, so I am looking for a solid reason for 1-2 steps fair because the geometry would seem to suggest otherwise.  Given that

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

For what it's worth, I never felt like Matt was attacking me. I thought we were having good, heated debates.

 

 

 

For what it's worth, I never felt like Matt was attacking me. I thought we were having good, heated debates.

Thanks. I thought that was the spirit as well.

 

GOOD JOB GUYS!!!!

 

That's the way it SHOULD be all the time here!

BaltimoreUmpire

BaltimoreUmpire

Posted
Posted

No more worries guys, .... immaculate1976 is done. Now continue your thread.

Did you just get an ejection without even being on the field?
Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

 

No more worries guys, .... immaculate1976 is done. Now continue your thread.

Did you just get an ejection without even being on the field?

 

That's correct sir! :wave:

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

Just out of curiosity, can this slap nut just create a new profile, or is his IP address banned?

Not sure ... Warren will have to answer that one ..... @Umpireinchief

LMSANS

LMSANS

Posted
Posted

We had another individual that was banned and he came back with a different moniker.  That one got banned too.  Warren does a lot of analysis of IP addresses with his user stats, so it is my guess that he can do both.

  • Like 1
Pete Peterson Sr

Pete Peterson Sr

Posted
Posted

 

 

No more worries guys, .... immaculate1976 is done. Now continue your thread.

Did you just get an ejection without even being on the field?

 

That's correct sir! :wave:

 

 

Meh...it was an administrative EJ. Doesn't really count, lol.....

  • Like 2
umpire_scott

umpire_scott

Posted
Posted

 

 

No more worries guys, .... immaculate1976 is done. Now continue your thread.

Did you just get an ejection without even being on the field?

 

That's correct sir! :wave:

 

 

And I thought those that got them at the plate meeting were impressive.

  • 2 weeks later...
millerforrest

millerforrest

Posted
Posted

Perfect example why the 90 isn't the best option while taking 1-2 steps in fair territory from the "A" position is. The BU is more apt to see a potential "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" scenario.

Magic

Magic

Posted
Posted
Perfect example why the 90 isn't the best option while taking 1-2 steps in fair territory from the "A" position is. The BU is more apt to see a potential "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" scenario.
Ummmmm you have back up from the plate umpire if you get straight lined.
grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted

Perfect example why the 90 isn't the best option while taking 1-2 steps in fair territory from the "A" position is. The BU is more apt to see a potential "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" scenario.

 

I'm curious to know why you see it that way.  I have heard it taught both ways, so I am looking for a solid reason for 1-2 steps fair because the geometry would seem to suggest otherwise.  Given that any particular throw can take F3 directly towards BU, thereby straight lining the angle, then we should position ourselves for the best angle on the majority of throws.  Doesn't it make sense that the majority of throws take F3 directly toward the fielder throwing the ball?  With that being the case, wouldn't a 90 degree angle from the line of that throw be the best view of F3 possibly pulling his foot?

 

Also, on plays where the throw gets away and the BR (who has run through the bag, and now takes a sharp left turn) decides to take off for second, being 1-2 steps fair creates two potential problems:

 

1.  It puts BU in the BR's path (see the Vanover collision from a few days ago)

2.  It lengthens BU's distance to get inside and in position for a play at second (since most throws that get away from F3 are likely coming from F5, F6, or from the plate area, 90 degrees takes BU farther in, which makes it easier to get inside.)

 

I'm interested to hear the counterpoint.

  • Like 4
Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

Perfect example why the 90 isn't the best option while taking 1-2 steps in fair territory from the "A" position is. The BU is more apt to see a potential "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" scenario.

 

I'm curious to know why you see it that way.  I have heard it taught both ways, so I am looking for a solid reason for 1-2 steps fair because the geometry would seem to suggest otherwise.  Given that any particular throw can take F3 directly towards BU, thereby straight lining the angle, then we should position ourselves for the best angle on the majority of throws.  Doesn't it make sense that the majority of throws take F3 directly toward the fielder throwing the ball?  With that being the case, wouldn't a 90 degree angle from the line of that throw be the best view of F3 possibly pulling his foot?

I haven't heard 2SF espoused at any of the three clinics I've been too in the last 8 years. If you adjust as recommended for an offline throw you might end up in 2SF for the throw that takes F3 to his left. But if you start in 2SF and have F3 go to his right you might be straight lined. It appears that most of the MLB guys are now going 90. But I'm open to enlightenment.

 

Also, on plays where the throw gets away and the BR (who has run through the bag, and now takes a sharp left turn) decides to take off for second, being 1-2 steps fair creates two potential problems:

 

1.  It puts BU in the BR's path (see the Vanover collision from a few days ago)

2.  It lengthens BU's distance to get inside and in position for a play at second (since most throws that get away from F3 are likely coming from F5, F6, or from the plate area, 90 degrees takes BU farther in, which makes it easier to get inside.)

 

I'm interested to hear the counterpoint.

Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

Perfect example why the 90 isn't the best option while taking 1-2 steps in fair territory from the "A" position is. The BU is more apt to see a potential "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" scenario.

 

I'm curious to know why you see it that way.  I have heard it taught both ways, so I am looking for a solid reason for 1-2 steps fair because the geometry would seem to suggest otherwise.  Given that any particular throw can take F3 directly towards BU, thereby straight lining the angle, then we should position ourselves for the best angle on the majority of throws.  Doesn't it make sense that the majority of throws take F3 directly toward the fielder throwing the ball?  With that being the case, wouldn't a 90 degree angle from the line of that throw be the best view of F3 possibly pulling his foot?

I haven't heard 2SF espoused at any of the three clinics I've been too in the last 8 years. If you adjust as recommended for an offline throw you might end up in 2SF for the throw that takes F3 to his left. But if you start in 2SF and have F3 go to his right you might be straight lined. It appears that most of the MLB guys are now going 90. But I'm open to enlightenment.

 

Also, on plays where the throw gets away and the BR (who has run through the bag, and now takes a sharp left turn) decides to take off for second, being 1-2 steps fair creates two potential problems:

 

1.  It puts BU in the BR's path (see the Vanover collision from a few days ago)

2.  It lengthens BU's distance to get inside and in position for a play at second (since most throws that get away from F3 are likely coming from F5, F6, or from the plate area, 90 degrees takes BU farther in, which makes it easier to get inside.)

 

I'm interested to hear the counterpoint.

I stuck my comment inthe middle of this post due to operator error.

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

 

Perfect example why the 90 isn't the best option while taking 1-2 steps in fair territory from the "A" position is. The BU is more apt to see a potential "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" scenario.

 

I'm curious to know why you see it that way.  I have heard it taught both ways, so I am looking for a solid reason for 1-2 steps fair because the geometry would seem to suggest otherwise.  Given that any particular throw can take F3 directly towards BU, thereby straight lining the angle, then we should position ourselves for the best angle on the majority of throws.  Doesn't it make sense that the majority of throws take F3 directly toward the fielder throwing the ball?  With that being the case, wouldn't a 90 degree angle from the line of that throw be the best view of F3 possibly pulling his foot?

 

Also, on plays where the throw gets away and the BR (who has run through the bag, and now takes a sharp left turn) decides to take off for second, being 1-2 steps fair creates two potential problems:

 

1.  It puts BU in the BR's path (see the Vanover collision from a few days ago)

2.  It lengthens BU's distance to get inside and in position for a play at second (since most throws that get away from F3 are likely coming from F5, F6, or from the plate area, 90 degrees takes BU farther in, which makes it easier to get inside.)

 

I'm interested to hear the counterpoint.

 

If the base was a circle, you would be right.  But its a square.  And most of the pulls are from the edge toward second -- that's easier to see from close to the line.  And, I don't think you get much advantage on the other edges from 90* to the throw (unless you are very near the 1b-2b line).  (And, I do go to nearer this spot when a throw comes from the box.)

 

2SF helps me not have the play "explode" on me and helps with the swipe tags. 

 

It hasn't been an issue on the overthrows.

grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted

 

 

Perfect example why the 90 isn't the best option while taking 1-2 steps in fair territory from the "A" position is. The BU is more apt to see a potential "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" scenario.

 

I'm curious to know why you see it that way.  I have heard it taught both ways, so I am looking for a solid reason for 1-2 steps fair because the geometry would seem to suggest otherwise.  Given that any particular throw can take F3 directly towards BU, thereby straight lining the angle, then we should position ourselves for the best angle on the majority of throws.  Doesn't it make sense that the majority of throws take F3 directly toward the fielder throwing the ball?  With that being the case, wouldn't a 90 degree angle from the line of that throw be the best view of F3 possibly pulling his foot?

 

Also, on plays where the throw gets away and the BR (who has run through the bag, and now takes a sharp left turn) decides to take off for second, being 1-2 steps fair creates two potential problems:

 

1.  It puts BU in the BR's path (see the Vanover collision from a few days ago)

2.  It lengthens BU's distance to get inside and in position for a play at second (since most throws that get away from F3 are likely coming from F5, F6, or from the plate area, 90 degrees takes BU farther in, which makes it easier to get inside.)

 

I'm interested to hear the counterpoint.

 

If the base was a circle, you would be right.  But its a square.  And most of the pulls are from the edge toward second -- that's easier to see from close to the line.  And, I don't think you get much advantage on the other edges from 90* to the throw (unless you are very near the 1b-2b line).  (And, I do go to nearer this spot when a throw comes from the box.)

 

2SF helps me not have the play "explode" on me and helps with the swipe tags. 

 

It hasn't been an issue on the overthrows.

 

 

That makes sense - thanks for the counterpoint.  Are you still 2SF on throws coming from the plate area when F3 decides to position his foot on the home plate side of first?

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Perfect example why the 90 isn't the best option while taking 1-2 steps in fair territory from the "A" position is. The BU is more apt to see a potential "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" scenario.

 

I'm curious to know why you see it that way.  I have heard it taught both ways, so I am looking for a solid reason for 1-2 steps fair because the geometry would seem to suggest otherwise.  Given that any particular throw can take F3 directly towards BU, thereby straight lining the angle, then we should position ourselves for the best angle on the majority of throws.  Doesn't it make sense that the majority of throws take F3 directly toward the fielder throwing the ball?  With that being the case, wouldn't a 90 degree angle from the line of that throw be the best view of F3 possibly pulling his foot?

 

Also, on plays where the throw gets away and the BR (who has run through the bag, and now takes a sharp left turn) decides to take off for second, being 1-2 steps fair creates two potential problems:

 

1.  It puts BU in the BR's path (see the Vanover collision from a few days ago)

2.  It lengthens BU's distance to get inside and in position for a play at second (since most throws that get away from F3 are likely coming from F5, F6, or from the plate area, 90 degrees takes BU farther in, which makes it easier to get inside.)

 

I'm interested to hear the counterpoint.

 

If the base was a circle, you would be right.  But its a square.  And most of the pulls are from the edge toward second -- that's easier to see from close to the line.  And, I don't think you get much advantage on the other edges from 90* to the throw (unless you are very near the 1b-2b line).  (And, I do go to nearer this spot when a throw comes from the box.)

 

2SF helps me not have the play "explode" on me and helps with the swipe tags. 

 

It hasn't been an issue on the overthrows.

 

 

That makes sense - thanks for the counterpoint.  Are you still 2SF on throws coming from the plate area when F3 decides to position his foot on the home plate side of first?

 

grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

Perfect example why the 90 isn't the best option while taking 1-2 steps in fair territory from the "A" position is. The BU is more apt to see a potential "pulled foot" or "swipe tag" scenario.

 

I'm curious to know why you see it that way.  I have heard it taught both ways, so I am looking for a solid reason for 1-2 steps fair because the geometry would seem to suggest otherwise.  Given that any particular throw can take F3 directly towards BU, thereby straight lining the angle, then we should position ourselves for the best angle on the majority of throws.  Doesn't it make sense that the majority of throws take F3 directly toward the fielder throwing the ball?  With that being the case, wouldn't a 90 degree angle from the line of that throw be the best view of F3 possibly pulling his foot?

 

Also, on plays where the throw gets away and the BR (who has run through the bag, and now takes a sharp left turn) decides to take off for second, being 1-2 steps fair creates two potential problems:

 

1.  It puts BU in the BR's path (see the Vanover collision from a few days ago)

2.  It lengthens BU's distance to get inside and in position for a play at second (since most throws that get away from F3 are likely coming from F5, F6, or from the plate area, 90 degrees takes BU farther in, which makes it easier to get inside.)

 

I'm interested to hear the counterpoint.

 

If the base was a circle, you would be right.  But its a square.  And most of the pulls are from the edge toward second -- that's easier to see from close to the line.  And, I don't think you get much advantage on the other edges from 90* to the throw (unless you are very near the 1b-2b line).  (And, I do go to nearer this spot when a throw comes from the box.)

 

2SF helps me not have the play "explode" on me and helps with the swipe tags. 

 

It hasn't been an issue on the overthrows.

 

 

That makes sense - thanks for the counterpoint.  Are you still 2SF on throws coming from the plate area when F3 decides to position his foot on the home plate side of first?

 

 

 

Missed that - thanks.

 

Also, I do think 2SF is a bad place to be when the swipe tag attempt is on the back.  You have no chance of seeing it from that spot, and you're so far in front that a read step won't help much either.

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

 

Missed that - thanks.

 

Also, I do think 2SF is a bad place to be when the swipe tag attempt is on the back.  You have no chance of seeing it from that spot, and you're so far in front that a read step won't help much either.

 

I agree with that.  the problem is that spot "A" is right for some calls and spot "B" is right for others but you don't know which play you'll have until it's too late.

  • 2 weeks later...
Don

Don

Posted
Posted

If you are sure F3's foot is on the bag and the throw beat the runner call the out. If the ball beat the runner and you are unsure if the foot was on the bag immediately ask your partner if the foot was on the bag, if he is an position to provide input, because if it was you have an out.  If the ball did not beat the runner it is irrelevant, call the safe.

 

I can't say I have asked very often.

Replacematt

Replacematt

Posted
Posted

If you are sure F3's foot is on the bag and the throw beat the runner call the out. If the ball beat the runner and you are unsure if the foot was on the bag immediately ask your partner if the foot was on the bag, if he is an position to provide input, because if it was you have an out.  If the ball did not beat the runner it is irrelevant, call the safe.

 

I can't say I have asked very often.

 

What do you do when he doesn't know?

  • Like 1
ricka56

ricka56

Posted
Posted

 

If you are sure F3's foot is on the bag and the throw beat the runner call the out. If the ball beat the runner and you are unsure if the foot was on the bag immediately ask your partner if the foot was on the bag, if he is an position to provide input, because if it was you have an out.  If the ball did not beat the runner it is irrelevant, call the safe.

 

I can't say I have asked very often.

 

What do you do when he doesn't know?

 

Hopefully you pregamed this mechanic and didn't surprise your partner with it...many will not approve. But If you are going to use this mechanic, then ask the right question, "Don, do you have a pulled foot?" If he doesn't know, then Don can unequivocally answer (aloud or in private) no, he didn't have a pulled foot...then bang the out. 

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