Fair & Foul Ball Mechanics

[Mad Mike]

We had a recent conversation among a few umpires about the mechanics and responsibilities of calling a fair or foul ball by the plate and base umpire. The situation discussed was that in a two-man system, and no one on base, a ball is batted up the first base line. The question(s) are:

 

1) Using NFHS mechanics, does the plate umpire have the call on the ball's status anywhere before the bag and the base umpire takes it after the bag?

 

2) Same question, but using NCAA or Pro Mechanics?

 

We have one guy who is adamant the base umpire takes the it down the line before the bag and plate takes it down the line after the bag. This seems to be opposite of what most of us think and pre-game.

 

I did note there does seem to be one instance in which the plate umpire would take it past the bag, when the base umpire in A, has to move to avoid being hit by the ball and is no longer in the best calling position on the ball. 

 

Please chime in with suggestions on the approved mechanics by the level.

[grayhawk]

Same mechanics at all levels.  Plate umpire has it to the front edge of the bag, Base umpire has it past the front edge.  There are special circumstances as you described.  Another one is if a pop up is coming down in the vicinity of BU.  In those cases, he should come in and pivot and give up the F/F to PU.

 

I've seen posts here on U-E where some umpires use the cutout rather than the front of the bag.  I think that's fine as long as it's pregamed.

[Jocko]

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

[maven]

@grayhawk provided the basic mechanic.

 

An advanced mechanic would cover "trouble" cases, including the ones just posted. Consider also the play where a ball is bounding up the line, F3 comes over to field it just behind the base, and touches it near the line and over the base. Technically, BU's call, but he probably couldn't see it. PU should take the call and sell it.

 

OR: slow roller up the 1BL, F1 comes over to field it in front of 1B, touches the ball near the line and blocks PU from seeing just where. Technically, PU's call, but he probably couldn't see it. BU should take the call and sell it.

 

PU is more likely to be blocked than BU.

[RichMSN]

U1 never has to move to avoid being hit by the ball.  Stay in just long enough to make a decision.  A pox to the house of all umpires who bail and force the plate guy to do their jobs.

[umpstu]

@grayhawk provided the basic mechanic.

 

An advanced mechanic would cover "trouble" cases, including the ones just posted. Consider also the play where a ball is bounding up the line, F3 comes over to field it just behind the base, and touches it near the line and over the base. Technically, BU's call, but he probably couldn't see it. PU should take the call and sell it.

 

OR: slow roller up the 1BL, F1 comes over to field it in front of 1B, touches the ball near the line and blocks PU from seeing just where. Technically, PU's call, but he probably couldn't see it. BU should take the call and sell it.

 

PU is more likely to be blocked than BU.

Good examples and points of emphasis, Maven.

[umpire_scott]

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

 

And if there is no cuttoff I assume you go back to the standard mechanic?  I had this bite me in the ass this weekend.  My fault for not pre-gaming it.  Ball bounded up the line and over first base, F3 was about 4 feet behind the back and gloved it in foul territory.  I had it fair, but because we had not pre-gamed it I didn't want to make the call.  With no verbal I quickly pointed fair to sort of let PU know what I had.  Just as I do this he yells foul and kills it.  I was hoping no one saw me, but alas the coach in the 3rd base dugout did and mentioned it to PU.  He answered it quickly and we moved on so no controversy.

[RichMSN]

 

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

 

And if there is no cuttoff I assume you go back to the standard mechanic?  I had this bite me in the ass this weekend.  My fault for not pre-gaming it.  Ball bounded up the line and over first base, F3 was about 4 feet behind the back and gloved it in foul territory.  I had it fair, but because we had not pre-gamed it I didn't want to make the call.  With no verbal I quickly pointed fair to sort of let PU know what I had.  Just as I do this he yells foul and kills it.  I was hoping no one saw me, but alas the coach in the 3rd base dugout did and mentioned it to PU.  He answered it quickly and we moved on so no controversy.

 

 

The PU had no business making a call if it was first touched 4 feet behind the bag, provided you came out immediately with a call.  If you hesitated, perhaps the PU assumed SOMEBODY needed to make a call.

[Big_Mac14]

Another situation that should be pregamed is if foul lines have been painted down the right field line. At most fields, this should be the case, however we have come across several fields this year where there are NO painted lines down the right field line.

In this instance PU should take all fair/foul calls down the right field line because he has better reference points to make the call (i.e. the chalk line and first base). This is the first thing we always check when we arrive at a field that we are unfamiliar with.

[Larry in TN]

Saw one where it made a big difference who made the call--both did, but they were opposite!

 

LL Int (50-70) tournament game.  BU in A.  Grounder down the  1B line with F3 moving over the bag to field the ball.  Ball hits the front of the 1B bag and rebounds into foul territory.

 

PU points fair, BU calls and signals foul.

 

Not sure why BU even made a call as he later said that he couldn't see the ball because F3 had him blocked.  He "just saw it come out rolling toward the dugout".

[noumpere]

 

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

 

And if there is no cuttoff I assume you go back to the standard mechanic?  I had this bite me in the ass this weekend.  My fault for not pre-gaming it.  Ball bounded up the line and over first base, F3 was about 4 feet behind the back and gloved it in foul territory.  I had it fair, but because we had not pre-gamed it I didn't want to make the call.  With no verbal I quickly pointed fair to sort of let PU know what I had.  Just as I do this he yells foul and kills it.  I was hoping no one saw me, but alas the coach in the 3rd base dugout did and mentioned it to PU.  He answered it quickly and we moved on so no controversy.

 

No matter which mechanics you use, that's BU's call -- the ball was neither fair nor foul until it bounded over or by the bag.  No need to pregame this.

[umpstu]

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

 

And if there is no cuttoff I assume you go back to the standard mechanic?  I had this bite me in the ass this weekend.  My fault for not pre-gaming it.  Ball bounded up the line and over first base, F3 was about 4 feet behind the back and gloved it in foul territory.  I had it fair, but because we had not pre-gamed it I didn't want to make the call.  With no verbal I quickly pointed fair to sort of let PU know what I had.  Just as I do this he yells foul and kills it.  I was hoping no one saw me, but alas the coach in the 3rd base dugout did and mentioned it to PU.  He answered it quickly and we moved on so no controversy.

No matter which mechanics you use, that's BU's call -- the ball was neither fair nor foul until it bounded over or by the bag.  No need to pregame this.

Was wondering why you didn't want to make that call? That is a very basic mechanic, pregamed or not.

[umpire_scott]

 

 

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

 

And if there is no cuttoff I assume you go back to the standard mechanic?  I had this bite me in the ass this weekend.  My fault for not pre-gaming it.  Ball bounded up the line and over first base, F3 was about 4 feet behind the back and gloved it in foul territory.  I had it fair, but because we had not pre-gamed it I didn't want to make the call.  With no verbal I quickly pointed fair to sort of let PU know what I had.  Just as I do this he yells foul and kills it.  I was hoping no one saw me, but alas the coach in the 3rd base dugout did and mentioned it to PU.  He answered it quickly and we moved on so no controversy.

 

No matter which mechanics you use, that's BU's call -- the ball was neither fair nor foul until it bounded over or by the bag.  No need to pregame this.

 

 

I was under the impression that PU has it to the front of the bag and once it goes over the bag at the front it's fair.  So a bounding ball down either line I was under the impression was the PU's call.

[ALStripes17]

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

And if there is no cuttoff I assume you go back to the standard mechanic? I had this bite me in the ass this weekend. My fault for not pre-gaming it. Ball bounded up the line and over first base, F3 was about 4 feet behind the back and gloved it in foul territory. I had it fair, but because we had not pre-gamed it I didn't want to make the call. With no verbal I quickly pointed fair to sort of let PU know what I had. Just as I do this he yells foul and kills it. I was hoping no one saw me, but alas the coach in the 3rd base dugout did and mentioned it to PU. He answered it quickly and we moved on so no controversy.

No matter which mechanics you use, that's BU's call -- the ball was neither fair nor foul until it bounded over or by the bag. No need to pregame this.

I was under the impression that PU has it to the front of the bag and once it goes over the bag at the front it's fair. So a bounding ball down either line I was under the impression was the PU's call.

PU has up to the front of the bag in basic mechanics 89.9 repeating feet (depends on pregame, this has been discussed at great length).

BU has the call if it hits the bag ... 90 ft+

Although YMMV

[maven]

I was under the impression that PU has it to the front of the bag and once it goes over the bag at the front it's fair.  So a bounding ball down either line I was under the impression was the PU's call.

Where is the fair/foul status of a bounding ball determined?

 

Who has the call at that point?

[noumpere]

 

 

 

I was under the impression that PU has it to the front of the bag and once it goes over the bag at the front it's fair.  So a bounding ball down either line I was under the impression was the PU's call.

 

 

If it's fair/foul because it bounds past the base, or first lands beyond the base it's BU's call.

 

if it's fair / foul because it's touched before the base or stops before the base, it's PU's call.

 

If it hasn't done any of those things yet, it's neither fair nor foul and nobody should be callin nuttin.

[RichMSN]

 

 

 

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

 

And if there is no cuttoff I assume you go back to the standard mechanic?  I had this bite me in the ass this weekend.  My fault for not pre-gaming it.  Ball bounded up the line and over first base, F3 was about 4 feet behind the back and gloved it in foul territory.  I had it fair, but because we had not pre-gamed it I didn't want to make the call.  With no verbal I quickly pointed fair to sort of let PU know what I had.  Just as I do this he yells foul and kills it.  I was hoping no one saw me, but alas the coach in the 3rd base dugout did and mentioned it to PU.  He answered it quickly and we moved on so no controversy.

 

No matter which mechanics you use, that's BU's call -- the ball was neither fair nor foul until it bounded over or by the bag.  No need to pregame this.

 

 

I was under the impression that PU has it to the front of the bag and once it goes over the bag at the front it's fair.  So a bounding ball down either line I was under the impression was the PU's call.

 

 

It's a pane of glass, Scott.  If the ball breaks the pane of glass, the call belongs to the base umpire, whether it's in the air, on the ground, or bounding.

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

 

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

 

And if there is no cuttoff I assume you go back to the standard mechanic?  I had this bite me in the ass this weekend.  My fault for not pre-gaming it.  Ball bounded up the line and over first base, F3 was about 4 feet behind the back and gloved it in foul territory.  I had it fair, but because we had not pre-gamed it I didn't want to make the call.  With no verbal I quickly pointed fair to sort of let PU know what I had.  Just as I do this he yells foul and kills it.  I was hoping no one saw me, but alas the coach in the 3rd base dugout did and mentioned it to PU.  He answered it quickly and we moved on so no controversy.

 

No matter which mechanics you use, that's BU's call -- the ball was neither fair nor foul until it bounded over or by the bag.  No need to pregame this.

 

 

I was under the impression that PU has it to the front of the bag and once it goes over the bag at the front it's fair.  So a bounding ball down either line I was under the impression was the PU's call.

 

 

It's a pane of glass, Scott.  If the ball breaks the pane of glass, the call belongs to the base umpire, whether it's in the air, on the ground, or bounding.

 

 

Exactly.  For evidence, see Trout's double last night in the ASG.  The third base umpire made that call.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v34580745

[Jocko]

I always take it to the cutout. But I also always pregame this.

 

And if there is no cuttoff I assume you go back to the standard mechanic?  I had this bite me in the ass this weekend.  My fault for not pre-gaming it.  Ball bounded up the line and over first base, F3 was about 4 feet behind the back and gloved it in foul territory.  I had it fair, but because we had not pre-gamed it I didn't want to make the call.  With no verbal I quickly pointed fair to sort of let PU know what I had.  Just as I do this he yells foul and kills it.  I was hoping no one saw me, but alas the coach in the 3rd base dugout did and mentioned it to PU.  He answered it quickly and we moved on so no controversy.

No matter which mechanics you use, that's BU's call -- the ball was neither fair nor foul until it bounded over or by the bag.  No need to pregame this.

 

I was under the impression that PU has it to the front of the bag and once it goes over the bag at the front it's fair.  So a bounding ball down either line I was under the impression was the PU's call.

 

It's a pane of glass, Scott.  If the ball breaks the pane of glass, the call belongs to the base umpire, whether it's in the air, on the ground, or bounding.

 

Exactly.  For evidence, see Trout's double last night in the ASG.  The third base umpire made that call.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v34580745love to hear that name:D :D

[grayhawk]

He's all that's right with baseball. So glad he's an Angel!

[steeler41]

Same mechanics at all levels.  Plate umpire has it to the front edge of the bag, Base umpire has it past the front edge.  There are special circumstances as you described.  Another one is if a pop up is coming down in the vicinity of BU.  In those cases, he should come in and pivot and give up the F/F to PU.

 

I've seen posts here on U-E where some umpires use the cutout rather than the front of the bag.  I think that's fine as long as it's pregamed.

Agreed