Catch or No Catch?

[tldavis19]

This situation was brought up at my High School association rules meeting. FED rules.

 

Outs and count don't really matter, but for argument's sake we'll say it's 1 out and a  1-1 count on the batter.

The pitch comes in and the batter squares to bunt. The ball hits the bat and pops up behind home plate. High enough for F2 to have a chance at it, but he doesn't realize this till it's almost too late. He spins and dives for the ball catching it in his outstretched glove. He hits the ground and the glove comes off his hand completely, but the ball remains in the glove. What is your ruling? Out or Foul Ball? and why?

[soapbox]

I have a foul ball.

[baseballfan]

If the glove flies off, we really don't have complete control of the ball. Foul.

[ricka56]

What would you have if the ball popped into F2's cap without touching the grass?

[maven]

"A catch is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a live ball in flight and firmly holding it..." 2-9-1

[BigUmpire]

"A catch is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a live ball in flight and firmly holding it..." 2-9-1

AND?

[Replacematt]

Detached equipment is not part of the player's body.

[maven]

 

"A catch is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a live ball in flight and firmly holding it..." 2-9-1

AND?

 

 

AND you can draw your own conclusion!

[baseballfan]

What would you have if the ball popped into F2's cap without touching the grass?

 

OBR specifically says that a fielder may not use his cap in making a catch.

[BigUmpire]

 

 

"A catch is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a live ball in flight and firmly holding it..." 2-9-1

AND?

 

 

AND you can draw your own conclusion!

 

2 things make a catch

[tldavis19]

this is FED. Detached player equipment doesn't apply because the glove was not thrown in an attempt to alter the live ball in flight, and this is not an illegal glove or mitt under any other rule. The ball was contacted legally with the mitt worn properly. The force of the impact caused the glove to come off, but NOT the ball to be dropped. The ball is stays in the glove (control) and the catcher picks it up and throws the ball back to the pitcher (voluntary release). I agree with the foul ball argument, but I'm also playing devil's advocate for the other side lol

[maven]

 

 

 

"A catch is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a live ball in flight and firmly holding it..." 2-9-1

AND?

 

 

AND you can draw your own conclusion!

 

2 things make a catch

 

Only 1 is relevant to the OP, and failing either one is sufficient to rule no catch.

[BigUmpire]

this is FED. Detached player equipment doesn't apply because the glove was not thrown in an attempt to alter the live ball in flight, and this is not an illegal glove or mitt under any other rule. The ball was contacted legally with the mitt worn properly. The force of the impact caused the glove to come off, but NOT the ball to be dropped. The ball is stays in the glove (control) and the catcher picks it up and throws the ball back to the pitcher (voluntary release). I agree with the foul ball argument, but I'm also playing devil's advocate for the other side lol

What would you rule on this play?

[Dash Riprock]

this is FED. Detached player equipment doesn't apply because the glove was not thrown in an attempt to alter the live ball in flight, and this is not an illegal glove or mitt under any other rule. The ball was contacted legally with the mitt worn properly. The force of the impact caused the glove to come off, but NOT the ball to be dropped. The ball is stays in the glove (control) and the catcher picks it up and throws the ball back to the pitcher (voluntary release). I agree with the foul ball argument, but I'm also playing devil's advocate for the other side lol

When the detached mitt (with the ball in it) touched the ground, the ball ceased being in flight.

[maven]

this is FED. Detached player equipment doesn't apply because the glove was not thrown in an attempt to alter the live ball in flight, and this is not an illegal glove or mitt under any other rule. The ball was contacted legally with the mitt worn properly. The force of the impact caused the glove to come off, but NOT the ball to be dropped. The ball is stays in the glove (control) and the catcher picks it up and throws the ball back to the pitcher (voluntary release). I agree with the foul ball argument, but I'm also playing devil's advocate for the other side lol

 

That's not devil's advocate, it's ignoring the definition of a catch.

 

Also, it's wrong: the ball resting in the glove does not entail that it wasn't dropped nor that it is in the fielder's possession and under control.

[noumpere]

I think too many people get confused over the play in this thread (not a catch) and the similar "Fx gets the ball in his glove and then runs into the wall and is knocked out and Fy picks the ball out of the glove or off the chest of Fx."

 

Different plays.  Different results.

[ricka56]

 

What would you have if the ball popped into F2's cap without touching the grass?

 

OBR specifically says that a fielder may not use his cap in making a catch.

And OBR didn't specify the OP sitch ? Shame, Shame. If that doesn't cause a demand for a rule book re-write I don't know what will.

 

I meant cap on ground, ball falls into it without touching grass. Same as the OP really. The suggestion that a ball inside detached equipment laying on the ground but hasn't touched grass can still be caught is silly. 

 

I agree with the foul ball argument, but I'm also playing devil's advocate for the other side lol

That's your best devil's advocate effort ?

[tldavis19]

I didn't ignore anything and I'm not trying to be the worlds smartest man either. Playing devil's advocate isn't to say you're right or wrong. It's to present what could possibly be a separate viewpoint from what the whole says is correct. I never claimed to be right at all. Just trying to make you think. Sorry for trying to make you use your brain a little. I knew there was a reason I stopped posting in the situations section.

[BigUmpire]

I didn't ignore anything and I'm not trying to be the worlds smartest man either. Playing devil's advocate isn't to say you're right or wrong. It's to present what could possibly be a separate viewpoint from what the whole says is correct. I never claimed to be right at all. Just trying to make you think. Sorry for trying to make you use your brain a little. I knew there was a reason I stopped posting in the situations section.

Don't give up on posting.

"Opinions are like ass&&oles, everyone has one and they ALL stink".

 

Learn who here is good and bad and disregard the buttheads. @mstaylor is very close to the best.

You almost need to post and let it season/fester for 24 hours to let the bookheads and armchair fatsos have at it for a while and you will able to filter an answer from all of the CRAP in all of the posts.

 

As for me I have a foul ball BUT I weigh 377 lbs.

[JaxRolo]

 

I didn't ignore anything and I'm not trying to be the worlds smartest man either. Playing devil's advocate isn't to say you're right or wrong. It's to present what could possibly be a separate viewpoint from what the whole says is correct. I never claimed to be right at all. Just trying to make you think. Sorry for trying to make you use your brain a little. I knew there was a reason I stopped posting in the situations section.

Don't give up on posting.

"Opinions are like ass&&oles, everyone has one and they ALL stink".

 

Learn who here is good and bad and disregard the buttheads. @mstaylor is very close to the best.

You almost need to post and let it season/fester for 24 hours to let the bookheads and armchair fatsos have at it for a while and you will able to filter an answer from all of the CRAP in all of the posts.

 

As for me I have a foul ball BUT I weigh 377 lbs.

 

I agree. Don't quit posting. Learn who to take advice from and who to ignore.

 

 

@BigUmpire I see you lost a couple of pounds!  Good for you!

[Replacematt]

this is FED. Detached player equipment doesn't apply because the glove was not thrown in an attempt to alter the live ball in flight, and this is not an illegal glove or mitt under any other rule. The ball was contacted legally with the mitt worn properly. The force of the impact caused the glove to come off, but NOT the ball to be dropped. The ball is stays in the glove (control) and the catcher picks it up and throws the ball back to the pitcher (voluntary release). I agree with the foul ball argument, but I'm also playing devil's advocate for the other side lol

 

You can't have control unless your body is controlling it.

 

Don't get hung up on the detached equipment/award concept. Detached equipment happens all the time, at which point they become foreign objects. I was not referring to any award, but that once equipment is detached, you no longer have possession because it is no longer part of your body.

[sdix00]

 

I didn't ignore anything and I'm not trying to be the worlds smartest man either. Playing devil's advocate isn't to say you're right or wrong. It's to present what could possibly be a separate viewpoint from what the whole says is correct. I never claimed to be right at all. Just trying to make you think. Sorry for trying to make you use your brain a little. I knew there was a reason I stopped posting in the situations section.

Don't give up on posting.

"Opinions are like ass&&oles, everyone has one and they ALL stink".

 

Learn who here is good and bad and disregard the buttheads. @mstaylor is very close to the best.

You almost need to post and let it season/fester for 24 hours to let the bookheads and armchair fatsos have at it for a while and you will able to filter an answer from all of the CRAP in all of the posts.

 

As for me I have a foul ball BUT I weigh 377 lbs.

 

 

Please use proper formatting when tagging me. 

@ArmchairFatso

[Thunderheads]

Foul ball ..........see maven's post at 11:15 yesterday morning

[BigUmpire]

 

 

I didn't ignore anything and I'm not trying to be the worlds smartest man either. Playing devil's advocate isn't to say you're right or wrong. It's to present what could possibly be a separate viewpoint from what the whole says is correct. I never claimed to be right at all. Just trying to make you think. Sorry for trying to make you use your brain a little. I knew there was a reason I stopped posting in the situations section.

Don't give up on posting.

"Opinions are like ass&&oles, everyone has one and they ALL stink".

 

Learn who here is good and bad and disregard the buttheads. @mstaylor is very close to the best.

You almost need to post and let it season/fester for 24 hours to let the bookheads and armchair fatsos have at it for a while and you will able to filter an answer from all of the CRAP in all of the posts.

 

As for me I have a foul ball BUT I weigh 377 lbs.

 

I agree. Don't quit posting. Learn who to take advice from and who to ignore.

 

 

@BigUmpire I see you lost a couple of pounds!  Good for you!

 

My waist size is UP to 42" for the first time in my life. Sitting around too much.

[CougarUmp]

agreed.  Keep posting situations.  That's the only way to get better.   I've figured out who on this site is worth reading.   I don't waste time on guys posting their opinions.  I look for answers that site ACTUAL rules!!!  I get enough wrong opinions from coaches and parents on the field.   This site is where I go to learn from the one's on here that know the correct answers.