What Would You Do? Part II

[MidAmUmp]

[Texas Manny]

What is it you are trying to discuss. Your image is not availalbe?

[MidAmUmp]

I fixed it. I was trying to imbed it but couldn't figure out how, so I've provided the link.

[Texas Manny]

(OBR) The only thing I would do differently is, as the base umpire, make a call. Otherwise, not enough information and the conversation is inaudible.

 

If this was an NFHS game, then I yield to those familiar with NFHS situational rules.

[Jimurray]

(OBR) The only thing I would do differently is, as the base umpire, make a call. Otherwise, not enough information and the conversation is inaudible.

 

If this was an NFHS game, then I yield to those familiar with NFHS situational rules.

I don't think a safe call is needed with the ball not caught. The ump did call time and that should have been followed by a malicious contact call and out and ejected if these teams were playing by FED rules.

[Thunderheads]

no ball, no call ..........

 

I don't care what rule-set I'm calling ....for this situation, I'm calling time, and yelling "KNOCK IT OFF RIGHT NOW!" 

 

A potential shove, imho, is not MC ... I keep everyone involved but let everyone know I saw it and won't put up with it

 

ON EDIT:

 

ONE TIME THROUGH, this is what I have ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ instinctually ...........

 

Looking at it again and again, ... I'd probably toss him, that's one hot-headed kid and what he does is totally uncalled for and unsportsmanlike and could easily get MC for it ........

[Umpire in Chief]

no ball, no call ..........

 

I don't care what rule-set I'm calling ....for this situation, I'm calling time, and yelling "KNOCK IT OFF RIGHT NOW!" 

 

A potential shove, imho, is not MC ... I keep everyone involved but let everyone know I saw it and won't put up with it

 

 

 

I like your original thought. I don't see enough to warrant en EJ, but I am going to get in there and actively control the situation. A good strong, "Knock it off!" will let everybody know I saw it ans addressed it. R2's participation in the game is holding onto the thinnest of strings.  

[grayhawk]

I wouldn't have tossed for MC on this play, but wouldn't blame anyone that would have called it.  I would take into account how the teams have been treating each other to this point, and act appropriately.  If there had been some animosity shown earlier in the game, then I would be more like to toss.

 

1.  F6 could be called for obstruction - he was impeding the runner without the ball.  However, I don't think the runner was trying to advance.  I'd have nothing.

2.  R1 did give a little shove, but it was pretty minor.  F6 was already off balance.

3.  There was no reaction at all by F6.

 

As BU, I would definitely give a strong warning and approach the players to ensure it doesn't escalate.  When the coach came out, as PU I would not entertain a conversation with him.  I would direct him to my partner immediately.  I understand that either umpire can call MC, but it would not be appropriate for PU to call it in this case when BU was right on top of the action, so the coach should be speaking with BU.  I would try to be within earshot of the conversation, however, in case things escalated and I needed to be the rodeo clown.

[JaxRolo]

I  have Obstruction. Runner made a move to 3rd and Fielder was in the way!

[Thunderheads]

I  have Obstruction. Runner made a move to 3rd and Fielder was in the way!

[BT_Blue]

I dont think I would have any MC or anything like that. It is hard to tell if there was any true shoving and I agree that F6 looked off balance in the first place. Also, if there was a shove, one of the players (F6, F4, F8, etc.) would have reacted. None did.

Also looks like the BU was talking to them while the DHC was talking to the PU.

I have no problems at the time of the video, but will definitely be paying more attention as the game continues.

[Mr Umpire]

On the field, I may have EJ out of reaction.  Not sure.  Depends on how I saw it at the time.  It's hard to tell if he was shoving at all or just turned to 3B and saw a glove in his face.  I think it was fine except the HC going to PU for any reason.  Wasn't his call since he didn't EJ anyone.  BU call so why go to PU at all.

 

The only thing I would do differently is PU tell HC to talk to BU since that is the one who was handling the situation.

[BT_Blue]

Looks like the PU actually "intercepted" the HC for some reason.

[HugoTafurst]

Looks like the PU actually "intercepted" the HC for some reason.

I viewed it once and it looked to me like PU intercepted the coach to keep him away from BU until the situation out there was settled. It was out of the picture, but I have a feeling that BU was probably surveying the situation and issuing those "knowck it offs" or "take it easy fellas" that others mentioned. 

Regarding the EJ, sometimes in situations like that, It's kind of like timing on your calls. All right, I saw the action, but it may be the secondary action that determines the EJ or not. Was it a quick little shove to maybe just fend off the contact, or did it continue...

[ricka56]

I think F6 plays soccer in the off-season.

[Mr Umpire]

I see HC heading straight to PU.  Maybe he was intercepting.  Don't know where HC was heading initially. 

[Jocko]

If you don't ej for mc here, keep your mouth shut when the DT F1 buries one between a batter's shoulderblades.

I'm punting R1/2 for MC on the spot. Whether F4 was off balance or not is inconsequential. R1/2 had no reason to put his hands on him. Buh bye.

Look at it like this... If what you saw was ok, then it would be ok for F4 to push an off balance R1/2 whether he had the ball or not.

Not on my field.

[spiritump]

it is not softball  or little league--- play on

[maven]

The runner was obstructed by F6, but MC supersedes OBS, at least for FED. Declining to call MC here will make the rest of this game an ugly, ungovernable mess. Just get that kid out of there and resume play. It wasn't an attempt to injure, but it was an aggressive, non-baseball shove. The runner is out and ejected. maven

[VAUmp]

HE GONE!

[th3]

It looks more dick-head every time you look at it...gotta eject...the lack of reaction from the SS was surprising though....

[Larry in TN]

So, *IF* R1 is ejected for MC, is that an out or does a pinch-runner take his place on 2B?

 

What rule set(s) define MC?  I've never found it in LL or OBR.

[ricka56]

If you don't ej for mc here, keep your mouth shut when the DT F1 buries one between a batter's shoulderblades.

 

I won't have a problem if an umpire EJ'd R1/2, but I disagree with the above.

If DT F1 responds to nothing with something, an umpire doesn't have to keep his mouth shut.

Matter of fact, this might be an excellent time to issue warnings to both teams.

[th3]

fed 2014 POE:

 

While this is not a new topic, there have been significant inquiries as to the interpretation of malicious contact. In fact, over the years, various NFHS rules committees have attempted to define what malicious contact looks like. After numerous attempts, the committees in the past took a current functional rule and turned it into a page and a half definition that still did not capture every possible scenario. Therein lies the problem. For every word or phrase used to describe malicious contact, you have to define that word or phrase as well.

There is a difference between malicious contact and incidental contact. Players risk serious injury anytime a runner purposely tries to run over another player. There is rules support in Rules 2, 3, 5, 8, in the Dead Ball Table and the Base Running Awards Table that substantiates the importance of malicious contact. Fortunately, umpires have the flexibility to determine when they witness contact whether it is of a malicious nature. That judgment should not be removed by rule, but it should be bolstered by education, game experience and field mechanics/location.

The majority of intentional collisions occur at home plate where the catcher is blocking the plate anticipating a play. Runners should be instructed to slide or attempt to avoid making contact with any defensive player. Malicious contact is penalized whether committed by an offensive or defensive player. So that focus can be given to the parameters surrounding malicious contact, the following suggestions are offered: contact or a collision is considered to be malicious if (1) the contact is the result of intentional excessive force, (2) the contact occured above the waist of the receiving player, and/or (3) there was intent to injure. It should not be misconstrued that the absence of these three conditions would automatically remove the presence of something malicious, but these suggestions certainly provide a starting point for consideration.

That is why it is imperative that umpires should work hard in understanding the NFHS rules book and the various situations that might occur dealing with contact. Head coaches must also be knowledgeable in the rules and proper techniques of how to teach and instruct their athletes in the nuances of the game to ensure a safe and educational experience for everyone.

[th3]

So, *IF* R1 is ejected for MC, is that an out or does a pinch-runner take his place on 2B?

 

What rule set(s) define MC?  I've never found it in LL or OBR.

out in FED and replaced by sub in OBR I think...someone will correct me...