What Would You Do? Part II

[Mr Umpire]

Yeah, I don't agree with OBS.  But, in FED, if you are going to call it, there is no "That's nothing" to be made if you call OBS.  You have to send him to 3B.  But, if you do that after something like this, you are going to be in a world of problems for the rest of the game.  I hope the car is close and there is a gate in CF to go out.  Tell your partner "I will see you later at the bar" and leave.

[JaxRolo]

You can't be afraid to make the correct call because someone might get mad.

[Thunderheads]

You can't be afraid to make the correct call because someone might get mad.

correct ....but obs isn't that call!

Jeff - via Tapatalk

[JaxRolo]

You can't be afraid to make the correct call because someone might get mad.

correct ....but obs isn't that call! Jeff - via Tapatalk Any call I make is correct!!! (In my own mind)

[MidAmUmp]

Yeah, I don't agree with OBS.  But, in FED, if you are going to call it, there is no "That's nothing" to be made if you call OBS.  You have to send him to 3B.  But, if you do that after something like this, you are going to be in a world of problems for the rest of the game.  I hope the car is close and there is a gate in CF to go out.  Tell your partner "I will see you later at the bar" and leave.

I agree, if you call obstruction, you have to enforce it. That's why umpires need to slow down and not get sucked into the need to call everything the moment it happens. Take a split second and ask yourself, if I call something here can I justify it? If yes, then call it. If no, "that's nothing". You can have contact without having obstruction...or mailicous contact, for that matter.

[Mr Umpire]

You can't be afraid to make the correct call because someone might get mad.

True but while OBR, the correct call is OBS since you have the option to decide if he goes to 3B, call it and this is Type B.  But, in FED, that is not an option.  Since FED ties your hands, OBS is not the correct call for this.

[LMSANS]

My first thought was that the base runner reached out to try to keep the defender from falling and he fell anyway.  All the players were so calm.  No posturing or puffing or anything.  I'd sure like to know what BU saw and heard.

This is what I saw...being outside the actual game, this play in and of itself is nothing.  If it were MC, I think there would be more reaction by either R1 or F6.  

[Platejob29]

I've got an ejection. Under FED rules that's MC even if it is on the less intense side of MC. Under OBR depending on the level I still probably have an ejection for unsportsmanlike conduct. The shove was unwarranted and was definitely with intent no question about it. I think if that happened in a pro game with exception to maybe the MLB there would probably be an ejection fallowed by a fine.

[Platejob29]

 

Yeah, I don't agree with OBS.  But, in FED, if you are going to call it, there is no "That's nothing" to be made if you call OBS.  You have to send him to 3B.  But, if you do that after something like this, you are going to be in a world of problems for the rest of the game.  I hope the car is close and there is a gate in CF to go out.  Tell your partner "I will see you later at the bar" and leave.

I agree, if you call obstruction, you have to enforce it. That's why umpires need to slow down and not get sucked into the need to call everything the moment it happens. Take a split second and ask yourself, if I call something here can I justify it? If yes, then call it. If no, "that's nothing". You can have contact without having obstruction...or mailicous contact, for that matter.

 

I agree you need to slow down and find justification for any call you make. I do think you can have MC though without contact as crazy as that sounds. Technically it wouldn't be Malicious "Contact" however if a runner goes into a play and intends to make contact a defensive player maliciously and the defensive player avoids the contact I think there still could be grounds for MC. Or if the runner tries to throw a punch or something like that in a play and doesn't land the punch you've still probably got a reason to call MC or maybe a better way to call it would be unsportsmanlike conduct. Either way if it's FED rules it is basically the same call just with a different name. Both of them take the intent of the runner into account.

[JaxRolo]

It's pretty obvious that there will be no agreements in this thread

[Mr Umpire]

When it comes to EJ, rarely is there an agreement.  So many think things could have been differently and their way would have prevented what followed.  There is NEVER a guarantee one's method would have made a better turnout.  This will always be speculation and suggestions.  One's suggestions may make it worse for this particular situation. 

 

Ejecting the player may have made the OC lose it and react worse than the DC.  Who knows.  As it appears, the situation went away just fine without an EJ. 

 

I still don't agree with OBS if under FED rules.  R2 would have never attempted for 3B and OBS should only protect if he was.

[Texas Manny]

It's pretty obvious that there will be no agreements in this thread

I agree!                     

[UmpTTS43]

Whether or not you have OBS is in the eye of the beholder. The one thing you have to remember is when the words "that's obstruction" come out of your mouth you have to enforce a rule. In FED, by rule you have to award an additional base. Not necessarily so under OBR.

I could see myself calling it either way. I am not ejecting for MC.

[UMP45]

Depending on if there was something that happened before, if I eject it's for USC.

[Jimurray]

Depending on if there was something that happened before, if I eject it's for USC.

I went on instincts on my first judgement of MC and in real time if you do not call it I won't argue with it. But, if you slow play and freeze frame, the runner pops up and gives a shoulder to the fielder and that is why the fielder is falling, followed by the assist by the runner. A pop up slide into the fielder is illegal in FED. I did not discern that in real time in the video but something in the demeanor made me think to call MC. Reviewing the video, the popup slide coupled with his immediate action afterwood shows MC. That it would be missed in real time is understandable. I was 60-40 for MC on real time viewing.

[Mr Umpire]

Depending on if there was something that happened before, if I eject it's for USC.

This would be my reasoning as well.  I saw nothing MC about it.  R1 was based on reaction and how the play developed.  I only see replacing him, not getting an out as well.

 

How one interprets R1's actions depends on who is judging it.

[alex7]

Depending on if there was something that happened before, if I eject it's for USC.

A pop up slide into the fielder is illegal in FED.

.

Even if the "fielder" doesn't have the ball and is just in the way??

[Jimurray]

Depending on if there was something that happened before, if I eject it's for USC.

A pop up slide into the fielder is illegal in FED.

.

Even if the "fielder" doesn't have the ball and is just in the way??

3.3.1 SITUATION AA:

R1 slides safely into second base and, in doing a pop-up slide, maliciously crashes into the second baseman, who was standing by the base without the ball.

RULING: The ball is dead immediately, and R1 is called out and ejected from the game for malicious contact.

[Richvee]

Sorry. I don't see the pop up as being malicious at all. It looks to me like he pops up with his back to the F6, who is already loosing his balance falling backward. Yeah, R1 then spins and takes a slap, or pushes F6 off him, but I don't see and illegal pop up slide here. 

[Richvee]

If you pause the video around 5-6 sec, you see him pop up in back of F6. Umpire also has a nice angle to see no contact there. Then if you advance it a few frames, you see the runner turn to find F6's glove in his face as F6 has lost his balance and is trying to gain some balance and not fall. I've got a natural rection to turning and seeing something heading towards your face here. SO, even slowing this down and looking closer, I stick with what I thought 1st at full speed. No MC, and  a good no call by BU. 

[Jimurray]

Sorry. I don't see the pop up as being malicious at all. It looks to me like he pops up with his back to the F6, who is already loosing his balance falling backward. Yeah, R1 then spins and takes a slap, or pushes F6 off him, but I don't see and illegal pop up slide here.

With the benefit of replay and freeze frame, I think R1 shouldered the fielder as he popped up which caused the fielder's unbalance. It's possible the turn and push was an adjunct to the aggressive pop-up (aggressive in that he did not have to shoulder the fielder if my interp of the video is accurate). There was not a no call. There was a " time" call because the umpire did not like what he saw. He probably was 40-60 about ejecting. He had a better angle than what the video shows. I was 60-40 about it.

[Richvee]

 

Sorry. I don't see the pop up as being malicious at all. It looks to me like he pops up with his back to the F6, who is already loosing his balance falling backward. Yeah, R1 then spins and takes a slap, or pushes F6 off him, but I don't see and illegal pop up slide here.

With the benefit of replay and freeze frame, I think R1 shouldered the fielder as he popped up which caused the fielder's unbalance. It's possible the turn and push was an adjunct to the aggressive pop-up (aggressive in that he did not have to shoulder the fielder if my interp of the video is accurate). There was not a no call. There was a " time" call because the umpire did not like what he saw. He probably was 40-60 about ejecting. He had a better angle than what the video shows. I was 60-40 about it.

 

Fair enough. I don't have an issue with "time" there after the push. AT full speed one time I don't have the shoulder hit (granted, we don't have a great angle on that). I'm not keen on the slap/push of F6's glove arm after the pop up slide, but I don't have MC on that, unless, as I said earlier, we were dealing with a game where tensions are high and there were incidents prior to this play. To me, that would put the play in a different light. 

[Richvee]

I could be way off, but I just get an overall feeling from F6 reaction, BU's actions, and even the DC's demeanor during his conversation with both PU and BU, that we weren't dealing with two teams in a game with any ill will towards each other.If that were the case, I think we would have seen a much more animated F6 and/of DC.