Should I have Dumped?

[JonnyCat]

Had this situation yesterday, never encountered it before, wanted to get some input from the group.

 

Here's the sitch: 16u travelball league game. Really a high school winterball league, relaxed atmosphere, I know some of the coaches and players, never a problem with sportsmanship.

 

Anyway, top of 3rd inning, HT pitcher is struggling a lot with location. Throws hard, but is having a tough day. He's not complaing about my zone at all, but is frustrated with himself becaues he has hit a couple of batters and most pitches are way out of the zone. 3-4 runs score, mostly on walks, and then the inning is over.

 

Bottom of 3, same HT pitcher is at bat with 2 outs and a runner in scoring position. By this time, HT is down 5-0. He strikes out swinging to end the inning, and then hits his wooden bat into the ground right in front of home plate. The bat cracks and is reduced to the scrap pile. The bat never leaves his hands, he just hit on the ground hard enough to break it. Doesn't shatter in two pieces. Kid doesn't say a word and just walks back to the dugout. No profanities, thrown bat, or helmet.

 

As soon as he walks away, I see the HT manager immediately walk towards the kid. I tell him to take care of it or I will. Manager is on it and talks to the kid between innings. No other incidents the rest of the game, and the kid never acted up again, but I could tell he was frustrated with his game.

 

Should I have dumped on that one? Never had it happen before, so I was kind of caught off guard. I've dumped kids for throwing equipment of course, but never seen one break a bat. Something tells me I should have, but I'm not sure.

 

What got me thinking I should have dumped was a comment from the VT stands, saying that was a poor example of sportsmanship and the kid should have gone. Nothing major, but I heard the comment as the stands at this field are really close. Fans, coaches, and players were very respectful, not an issue at all.

 

What do you all think? Thanks.

 

 

[Texas Manny]

No. I would not have ejected him because the slamming of the bat was his frustration with himself, not with you. In pro ball that would have been an equipment violation, but outside of that, just pure frustration. He did not do anything that would have injured another player or yourself. You did the right thing by allowing the coach to deal with it.

 

Who cares what the fans think. They'll say anything.

[JonnyCat]

Thanks Manny, that was my first instinct, frustration, so I let it go. Particularly with the managers reaction.

 

I don't normally listen to the fans, but the comment about sportsmanship got me thinking after the game.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Poor sportsmanship ? Yes. Ejectable offense ? Negative. Manny nailed this in his response. 

[JaxRolo]

No dump. I wouldn't even tell the coach to take care of it. HS fall ball you are just there to call balls and strikes. Unless it's directed at you leave it alone.

[Dannytheman]

No trouble here.  I think you handled perfectly!

[JonnyCat]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I'm glad I went with my first instinct. While I don't post much, I'm constantly here reading all the information. It's a great learning tool. I've definitely learned a lot from here, it's a great resource!

 

Jax, it's funny you should say that and I agree about calling balls and strikes. During the game, one of the coaches complained about the chatter coming from the other bench while the pitcher was in his wind up. I told him that it was fine by me and I must have had a certain look of disbelief in my expression. He paused for second and then said, "Sorry John, I forgot this wasn't Little Leage." We were playing at a LL field that he coaches at and is also used for travelball games. I guess he forgot what time of year it was.

[bam]

Didn't even read the OP, but yes

[Richvee]

Didn't even read the OP, but yes

haha...This made me laugh. When I saw the title of this topic and saw Bam had the last post, before I even opened the thread my thought was "I bet Bam's answer is "yes, you should have dumped him"

[BRUMP]

I've seen this quote on here before but I'll reiterate it. "If you have to ask should I have ejected? 90% of the time the answer is yes." All that said IMO this falls into the other 10%.

[Platejob29]

I think you did the right thing just letting the coach handle it. No need for an ejection just because a player is mad at him self. He didn't throw the bat at anyone or into the field of play so letting it go was probably the best thing to do.

 

I never saw him play personally but I've heard from some of the older umpires in my chapter that John Briscoe would often get frustrated with himself and do things similar to what the player in your game did when he was playing Connie Mack here locally. I've heard stories that he would often swear and cuss him self out on the mound and while at the plate and almost every time would quickly turn to the umpire and apologize telling them he was talking to him self. He has been my younger brother's pitching instructor for 8 years now and I never would have thought that he would do anything like that because he is so calm and mild mannered. I've been trying to find some video of his playing days with Oakland to see if he did it later in his career but I haven't been able to find any. If anyone has any links to that it would be awesome. 

 

[Mr Umpire]

I see nothing to address with the player.  Not even to mention it to the coach.  Now, I know HS has its thoughts about this kind of thing for sportsmanship.  I understand their issue with it but I don't think this falls under what they are concerned with.

 

This is one of those things that I would be telling someone "I didn't see it so I can't do anything about it."  He was frustrated at himself.  Why add more to it for no reason?  This doesn't even sound like a HTBT situation like so many of these threads are.  This is a "Not my concern unless he violates some safety issue." 

 

I think leaving this one alone was the best thing to do since none of it was directed at you in any way.

[grayhawk]

Good instincts John.  No reason to dump this kid, especially in a HS fall game.

[ricka56]

BRUmp talked about a 90/10 distribution. There is probably a 10% population of OOO that think that even the OP is an ejectionable offense and will think that you are a pu$$y not to send the kid. Don't let them bamboozle you into joining that 10%.

[mjr_2013]

Does anyone think our answers to this could be different had he struck out looking instead of swinging before breaking the bat?

[mstaylor]

Does anyone think our answers to this could be different had he struck out looking instead of swinging before breaking the bat?

Maybe but not likely. If he has already shown signs of frustration with himself, even looking it's probably nothing. If he is frustrated with umpire he likely going to look hard at the umpire, say something, make some indication it is directed at the umpire. If not then you can't be sure, let it go. 

[JaxRolo]

Does anyone think our answers to this could be different had he struck out looking instead of swinging before breaking the bat?

Not likely

[Mr Umpire]

Does anyone think our answers to this could be different had he struck out looking instead of swinging before breaking the bat?

As mentioned, depends on his additional actions.

[Stan W.]

no ejection, ...again you are the guy there, so you have to make the determination, but to me, this doesnt seem to merit an ejection.....I dont go looking for ejections but never hold up on a "must go".....one of the things that comes with expwerience should be game management skills....in a relaxed HS fall game, a couple words here can go a long way....

 

batter.breaks bat...

 

Hey batter, you ok?....

Yes, Im just frustrated....

Ok, well take a deep breath, you'll get em next time....

[Jglopez7]

Im just gonna continue with the "Should I have Dumped"

 

Line drive to second caught which put R2 in no mans land, both players dove back to second where the tag was at the helmet. Im PU and my partner calls him out double play. OC comes out to the home plate asks for time, he comes up to me and says "did you see the second baseman smack my player in the face with the tag?" Not knowing where he was going with this, I said are you questioning the tag? OC coach states "you are going to allow the second baseman smack my player" I said it was a clean tag coach. Im not kidding guys, he says in a low voice between me and him "I'm telling my players to punch the second baseman next time" (mind you this coach is a cop). I told him coach I will not tolerate that NOT HAPPENING (i'm giving the coach a chance to take back what he said). He proceeds and says "NO IM DOING IT" as he backs up away from me. I provided a verbal warning and we continued without problems.

 

Should I have dumped him after the statement?

[KLAH316]

Im just gonna continue with the "Should I have Dumped"

 

Line drive to second caught which put R2 in no mans land, both players dove back to second where the tag was at the helmet. Im PU and my partner calls him out double play. OC comes out to the home plate asks for time, he comes up to me and says "did you see the second baseman smack my player in the face with the tag?" Not knowing where he was going with this, I said are you questioning the tag? OC coach states "you are going to allow the second baseman smack my player" I said it was a clean tag coach. Im not kidding guys, he says in a low voice between me and him "I'm telling my players to punch the second baseman next time" (mind you this coach is a cop). I told him coach I will not tolerate that NOT HAPPENING (i'm giving the coach a chance to take back what he said). He proceeds and says "NO IM DOING IT" as he backs up away from me. I provided a verbal warning and we continued without problems.

 

Should I have dumped him after the statement?

Cop or no cop..... Dump him!

[grayhawk]

Im just gonna continue with the "Should I have Dumped"

 

Line drive to second caught which put R2 in no mans land, both players dove back to second where the tag was at the helmet. Im PU and my partner calls him out double play. OC comes out to the home plate asks for time, he comes up to me and says "did you see the second baseman smack my player in the face with the tag?" Not knowing where he was going with this, I said are you questioning the tag? OC coach states "you are going to allow the second baseman smack my player" I said it was a clean tag coach. Im not kidding guys, he says in a low voice between me and him "I'm telling my players to punch the second baseman next time" (mind you this coach is a cop). I told him coach I will not tolerate that NOT HAPPENING (i'm giving the coach a chance to take back what he said). He proceeds and says "NO IM DOING IT" as he backs up away from me. I provided a verbal warning and we continued without problems.

 

Should I have dumped him after the statement?

 

I'm wondering why you are talking to him at all.  He's asking you about a play/tag on a call your partner made.  Direct him to your partner to discuss it.  DO NOT entertain a conversation with him as you are only providing him an opportunity to do the "he said" game with your partner.

[Jglopez7]

 

Im just gonna continue with the "Should I have Dumped"

 

Line drive to second caught which put R2 in no mans land, both players dove back to second where the tag was at the helmet. Im PU and my partner calls him out double play. OC comes out to the home plate asks for time, he comes up to me and says "did you see the second baseman smack my player in the face with the tag?" Not knowing where he was going with this, I said are you questioning the tag? OC coach states "you are going to allow the second baseman smack my player" I said it was a clean tag coach. Im not kidding guys, he says in a low voice between me and him "I'm telling my players to punch the second baseman next time" (mind you this coach is a cop). I told him coach I will not tolerate that NOT HAPPENING (i'm giving the coach a chance to take back what he said). He proceeds and says "NO IM DOING IT" as he backs up away from me. I provided a verbal warning and we continued without problems.

 

Should I have dumped him after the statement?

 

I'm wondering why you are talking to him at all.  He's asking you about a play/tag on a call your partner made.  Direct him to your partner to discuss it.  DO NOT entertain a conversation with him as you are only providing him an opportunity to do the "he said" game with your partner.

 

As always there is something I left out, during the plate meeting my partner and this coach/cop shake hands and give each other a "man hug" I guess I'll call it. I am assuming he came to me due to the relationship with the BU. I have no excuse, after I issued the warning I knew I should have sent him to my partner first but too late ):

[UmpJeff]

Im just gonna continue with the "Should I have Dumped"

 

Line drive to second caught which put R2 in no mans land, both players dove back to second where the tag was at the helmet. Im PU and my partner calls him out double play. OC comes out to the home plate asks for time, he comes up to me and says "did you see the second baseman smack my player in the face with the tag?" Not knowing where he was going with this, I said are you questioning the tag? OC coach states "you are going to allow the second baseman smack my player" I said it was a clean tag coach. Im not kidding guys, he says in a low voice between me and him "I'm telling my players to punch the second baseman next time" (mind you this coach is a cop). I told him coach I will not tolerate that NOT HAPPENING (i'm giving the coach a chance to take back what he said). He proceeds and says "NO IM DOING IT" as he backs up away from me. I provided a verbal warning and we continued without problems.

 

Should I have dumped him after the statement?

In a word...YES.

[BRUMP]

see my post earlier in the thread…..(your in the 90%)