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Easy Pesy Lemon Squzzey


semper_fi_72

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I don't have a problem dumping him.12 is12 and they get no say what so ever, none. I had a parent want me removed because I responded verbally instead of just getting rid of a petulant child. I told him to shut up and pitch. Evidently that was too strong.I told the dad I was sorry fort the comment, not for the sentiment. I told him he had no business in my conversation. Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

And the pussification of America continues........

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I don't have a problem dumping him.12 is12 and they get no say what so ever, none. I had a parent want me removed because I responded verbally instead of just getting rid of a petulant child. I told him to shut up and pitch. Evidently that was too strong.I told the dad I was sorry fort the comment, not for the sentiment. I told him he had no business in my conversation. Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

pussificationGreat verbage lead me to an epiphany... America: Pacification Through Pussification. Should replace the words on Lady Liberty
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Not so Easy Pesy. I worry when I hear umpires say stuff like " I haven't ejected a coach in 4 years..." The first thing I think is " how many ejections have you missed!"

I wasn't there and I do know Lou...I think I need a little more than "you got to be kidding me" to get ran. Hell, players tell me that line CONSTANTLY!! Fair, foul, safe and out..I can teach a 13 year old to do that. Game management and dealing with people....that separates the "ok" umpires and the great ones!!

This isn't a rag session on the original poster. This is advise from a guy who has been around the block....

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I don't have a problem dumping him.12 is12 and they get no say what so ever, none. I had a parent want me removed because I responded verbally instead of just getting rid of a petulant child. I told him to shut up and pitch. Evidently that was too strong.I told the dad I was sorry fort the comment, not for the sentiment. I told him he had no business in my conversation. Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

And the pussification of America continues........

Are you saying I shouldn't have apologized to the parent? Evidently he feels that particular phrase is particularly offensive and forbids it in his house. I can see that , and so I said I was sorry for the phrase. I was equally insistent that my reasoning wouldn't change, he had no business interjecting himself, so effectively he needed to shut up and pitch. The dad agreed, accepted my apology, then went and reprimanded his son for getting in my business. 

When he talked to my UIC he was hopping mad. The UIC told him I was his best umpire, the past UIC and his trainer, I was going nowhere but he would talk to me. He asked if it happened. I told him absolutely. He asked if I would apologize. I told him absolutely not, he needed to do exactly what I said. Chuck said," Well there you go." We talked and I agreed my choice of words was not good, the reasoning was sound, so I went to the parent and explained exactly that. 

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Not so Easy Pesy. I worry when I hear umpires say stuff like " I haven't ejected a coach in 4 years..." The first thing I think is " how many ejections have you missed!"

I wasn't there and I do know Lou...I think I need a little more than "you got to be kidding me" to get ran. Hell, players tell me that line CONSTANTLY!! Fair, foul, safe and out..I can teach a 13 year old to do that. Game management and dealing with people....that separates the "ok" umpires and the great ones!!

This isn't a rag session on the original poster. This is advise from a guy who has been around the block....

 

 

Good point Chris.

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I don't have a problem dumping him.12 is12 and they get no say what so ever, none. I had a parent want me removed because I responded verbally instead of just getting rid of a petulant child. I told him to shut up and pitch. Evidently that was too strong.I told the dad I was sorry fort the comment, not for the sentiment. I told him he had no business in my conversation. Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

And the pussification of America continues........

Are you saying I shouldn't have apologized to the parent? Evidently he feels that particular phrase is particularly offensive and forbids it in his house. I can see that , and so I said I was sorry for the phrase. I was equally insistent that my reasoning wouldn't change, he had no business interjecting himself, so effectively he needed to shut up and pitch. The dad agreed, accepted my apology, then went and reprimanded his son for getting in my business. 

When he talked to my UIC he was hopping mad. The UIC told him I was his best umpire, the past UIC and his trainer, I was going nowhere but he would talk to me. He asked if it happened. I told him absolutely. He asked if I would apologize. I told him absolutely not, he needed to do exactly what I said. Chuck said," Well there you go." We talked and I agreed my choice of words was not good, the reasoning was sound, so I went to the parent and explained exactly that. 

 

I'm not saying yes - I'm not saying no.  If you feel an apology is in order, that's fine.  By all means, tell the parent AND the kid you're sorry and were wrong.  See where it gets you.  All I know is that you've got a PITA kid who won't shut up.  And now the kid's parent wants an apology from you

 

If it were me, I wouldn't have given the parent the time of day.  And I wouldn't have given it a second thought.  

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That was my initial feeling, and I still believe the reason for shutting him down was valid. The problem was the parent was offended by my phrase, not the action. That is what I apologized for, telling him to shutup, not for the reason for telling him. I was quite adamant when I talked to the dad, It was for my choice of words not why I said it. I never said anything to the kid. The father agreed his kid was out of line, he had no problem with me shutting him down, he just didn't like my choice of words. So the end result was me talking to the dad, the kid got nothing, he was straight up wrong. 

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That was my initial feeling, and I still believe the reason for shutting him down was valid. The problem was the parent was offended by my phrase, not the action. That is what I apologized for, telling him to shutup, not for the reason for telling him. I was quite adamant when I talked to the dad, It was for my choice of words not why I said it. I never said anything to the kid. The father agreed his kid was out of line, he had no problem with me shutting him down, he just didn't like my choice of words. So the end result was me talking to the dad, the kid got nothing, he was straight up wrong. 

 

So what will be your new choice of words for this situation in the future? Your choice of words was "shut up and pitch". What will the new words (i.e. phrases) be, or could there be several phrases to use? Please list. This is mainly to help the new guys learn how to handle situations verbally.

Sorry this happened to you.

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That was my initial feeling, and I still believe the reason for shutting him down was valid. The problem was the parent was offended by my phrase, not the action. That is what I apologized for, telling him to shutup, not for the reason for telling him. I was quite adamant when I talked to the dad, It was for my choice of words not why I said it. I never said anything to the kid. The father agreed his kid was out of line, he had no problem with me shutting him down, he just didn't like my choice of words. So the end result was me talking to the dad, the kid got nothing, he was straight up wrong. 

 

So what will be your new choice of words for this situation in the future? Your choice of words was "shut up and pitch". What will the new words (i.e. phrases) be, or could there be several phrases to use? Please list. This is mainly to help the new guys learn how to handle situations verbally.

Sorry this happened to you.

"Let's play ball" and "Come on let's go" are some suggestions I might use.

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I don't want to pass judgment, but here's a kid, growing up in what I would call a pretty strict environment where the simple phrase "shut up" is considered "offensive", or "out of line", yet the kid's acting like a little brat on the baseball diamond.....Just sayin'.....  :shrug:  

 

Would "Zip it" be appropriate?  Or is that offensive these  days also? 

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Not so Easy Pesy. I worry when I hear umpires say stuff like " I haven't ejected a coach in 4 years..." The first thing I think is " how many ejections have you missed!"

I wasn't there and I do know Lou...I think I need a little more than "you got to be kidding me" to get ran. Hell, players tell me that line CONSTANTLY!! Fair, foul, safe and out..I can teach a 13 year old to do that. Game management and dealing with people....that separates the "ok" umpires and the great ones!!

This isn't a rag session on the original poster. This is advise from a guy who has been around the block....

 

I am a guy who used to get them by the bushel and I now probably average about 2-3 a year.  My reputation precedes me.

 

That said, I don't think I can make a judgment based on a post here.  The words certainly aren't enough.  The gesture and the words?  Now we're getting closer.  Eye contact?  That doesn't mean much to me.  I wish I could get my kid to make eye contact MORE often, to be honest.

 

My tolerance for 12-year-olds and their coaches and their behavior has really been shaped by my involvement in Little League.  Kids that age and parent/coaches of that age really don't know sometimes where the line is.  I'm not sure ejecting them all and seeing who's left when the dust settles is the right philosophy.

 

One size certainly doesn't fit all.

 

I certainly don't work as many baseball games as the OP (I worked 110 last year, including HS/college/LL/Legion/summer), but I do work HS/college football and HS basketball (my season ended yesterday with a state quarterfinal game) so I do get my share of game management experiences on a virtually year-round basis and it's something I'm always trying to do better because as Chris said, it's what separates the good from the great.

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I'm not trying to defend the term "shut up". Personally I'd like to use the term "Shut the F**K up!" 15 or 20 times a game. A well placed "shut up" can go along way, just not so everyone can hear it. But cow-towing to parents of unrepentant brats is not the way to umpire, much less a philosophy of life. Just one man's opinion.

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I'm not trying to defend the term "shut up". Personally I'd like to use the term "Shut the F**K up!" 15 or 20 times a game. A well placed "shut up" can go along way, just not so everyone can hear it. But cow-towing to parents of unrepentant brats is not the way to umpire, much less a philosophy of life. Just one man's opinion.

OK, ok, you've made your point .........

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I'm not trying to defend the term "shut up". Personally I'd like to use the term "Shut the F**K up!" 15 or 20 times a game. A well placed "shut up" can go along way, just not so everyone can hear it. But cow-towing to parents of unrepentant brats is not the way to umpire, much less a philosophy of life. Just one man's opinion.

No..... Not you! The guy who :wub: the kiddies :sarcasm::rollinglaugh:

You should make this ^^^ your avatar

post-2162-0-70053300-1363002732_thumb.jp

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Ok... Here is my $0.02 on ejections.....

Everyone wants to have these "automatic" triggers that will get a player/manager/coach ejected. Yes, there are certain things that will get you run immediately.... Throwing at a hitter, malicious contact, etc are all automatic EJs, but when it comes to verbal dialog, one can't be too quick to EJ. First off, it dosent matter if they are 12yr olds or 34 yr olds. I'm not there to parent, I'm there to umpire. I dont have any diffrent standards for ejection other than the use of profanity at the younger ages. Yes, as umpires we are the law of the land (diamond), and we must not put up with crap from either players or coaches, but having thin skin can lead to what I call "pre-mature eject-u-lation".

Statements like "you've got to be kidding me?"......or "are you sure about about that call?"......fall in to the area of questions. Yes they may be sarcastic questions, but questions none the less. You can't eject for questions. Any question directed toward an umpire on a baseball field deserves an honest non-sarcastic response. If a player or manager says something like "you've got to be kidding me?" I'm going to reply in a firm voice, "no I'm not kidding....the runner is out/safe." Then I'm immediatly returning (hustling) to my position. From this point, If that player or manager has something else to say, if he wants me to hear it, its going to have to be loud and it probably won't be a question......then he will be approaching EJ land.

Believe it or not.....players/ managers are allowed to disagree with our calls. It's the manner that they display their disagreement that will get them run. On a called 3rd strike and the batter says something like "that pitch was low" or "that was not a strike".... I'm going to simply respond in the same firm voice... "that was a good pitch" or "that pitch is a strike". Now, im not going to stand there and have a discussion about the strike zone with the hitter. The batter should be returning to his dugout immediately. If the batter continues to stand there in protest, I will instruct him with even a more firm voice (and maybe even a quick removal of my mask) to return to his dugout (which is my verbal warning by the way) if not then he is ejected. Unless the batter starts pointing or drawing lines, you won't get an auto ejection from me especially if they are walking and talking on their way back to the dugout.

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This quite a few years ago, the kid is now an engineer. I am pretty good friends with the father and tell him to shut up when I see him. I could have just as easily told him to worry about playing, not my umpiring. That would never get a second thought by me. If I offended someone, tough. To be honest, my initial reaction was no way I was talking to anybody, the kid was wrong. It was only after my UIC explained the taboo of the phrase that I reconsidered. I was adamant with the father that it was only the choice of words I regretted, not why it was said. The kid was flat wrong and needed to be called down. I also personally don't see the major offense but in singular case it was offensive. Game management is very much a game by game feel. There are rules of thumb but sometimes you just have to umpire which means unusual responses sometimes. 

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This quite a few years ago, the kid is now an engineer. I am pretty good friends with the father and tell him to shut up when I see him. I could have just as easily told him to worry about playing, not my umpiring. That would never get a second thought by me. If I offended someone, tough. To be honest, my initial reaction was no way I was talking to anybody, the kid was wrong. It was only after my UIC explained the taboo of the phrase that I reconsidered. I was adamant with the father that it was only the choice of words I regretted, not why it was said. The kid was flat wrong and needed to be called down. I also personally don't see the major offense but in singular case it was offensive. Game management is very much a game by game feel. There are rules of thumb but sometimes you just have to umpire which means unusual responses sometimes. 

Everything about your story, and the aftermath seems perfectly fine to me ....I personally appreciate you shareing it with us :D

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I don't often work levels below HS JV but I did a favor for an assigner and took a 14 yo game.  No problem as I think 14 yo's deserve decent umpires and I don't feel the pressure in a game like this.  Anyway I have a play at the plate and the runner slides into the catcher who is waiting with the ball.  Easy call. I made the out call and the runner gets up and says " You're blind"  I responded with "You're done".   

After the game the ejected runner came to me and apologized.  I told him it was no big deal but there are certain things you just can't say.  I like to believe the young man learned something from this.    After all, isn't this level of ball more of a learning experience for these kids than the stiff competition we see at the higher levels?

 

A side note;  after the ejection, I made the statement to the runner that he was clearly out by at least two feet, then the idiot parent behind the fence said " You can't see two feet".  Of course I ignored this moronic statement.  All in all a fun day for me. 

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