Scissors

[scrounge]

I use it in LL all the time. It is hard to get down low otherwise, I have tried. I call my look a motified scissor.

And I always stand up straight after every pitch.

I will admit that I did use scissors in one game this year....the day I forgot my cup for a solo U9 game. :)

[Thunderheads]

I do believe the trick is not to be too rigid in getting into your stance ...that's the key! This will keep things loose and you'll feel more agile

[Jocko]

Watching Mets/Braves game. Kerwin Danley on the stick. He actually takes a knee for each pitch, and on called Ks, he points before he stands.

Do any of the other guys still take a knee?

[JHSump]

Here's my issue with the scissors.

First many guys do it incorrectly.

Next, it places unnecessary stress on the neck/spine and does not give the same concussion protection as the box/heel-toe/slot. Here is how:

If you take a shot to the head being in the scissors stance your neck cannot absorb as much of the impact that it could not being in the scissors.

Here's the example I always give. Sitting at your desk put your elbows on your knees and look up at something eye level across the room like you would if you were looking at a pitcher or a pitch coming in. This puts your neck & back at a similar angle to what it would be in the scissors position. Now, try lifting your head suddenly simulating getting hit with the ball. Notice how much/little range of motion you have.

Now, put your elbows on your upper thigh so that your back is straighter just like if you were in the slot/box stance. Look at something across the room at something at eye-level. Once again lift your head suddenly like you are taking a hit. Notice how much more range of motion you have.

It is that range of motion which can help minimize the chance of concussions and/or neck and spine issues.

I have been warned about the neck and concussion possibilities with the scissors and I just haven't seen it. I do not know of a single instance of a scissor guy getting a concussion. On the other hand I know many box guys that have had both concussions and neck injuries. I have taken many 90+MPH shots to the face with no ill effect.

I don't teach scissors unless asked. If I have a guy in a cage that scissors I will work with him.

Maybe it's not possible to teach the scissors over the internet, but I'm curious. Can you give it a try? I'd be interested in giving it a shot.

[Jocko]

Here's my issue with the scissors.

First many guys do it incorrectly.

Next, it places unnecessary stress on the neck/spine and does not give the same concussion protection as the box/heel-toe/slot. Here is how:

If you take a shot to the head being in the scissors stance your neck cannot absorb as much of the impact that it could not being in the scissors.

Here's the example I always give. Sitting at your desk put your elbows on your knees and look up at something eye level across the room like you would if you were looking at a pitcher or a pitch coming in. This puts your neck & back at a similar angle to what it would be in the scissors position. Now, try lifting your head suddenly simulating getting hit with the ball. Notice how much/little range of motion you have.

Now, put your elbows on your upper thigh so that your back is straighter just like if you were in the slot/box stance. Look at something across the room at something at eye-level. Once again lift your head suddenly like you are taking a hit. Notice how much more range of motion you have.

It is that range of motion which can help minimize the chance of concussions and/or neck and spine issues.

I have been warned about the neck and concussion possibilities with the scissors and I just haven't seen it. I do not know of a single instance of a scissor guy getting a concussion. On the other hand I know many box guys that have had both concussions and neck injuries. I have taken many 90+MPH shots to the face with no ill effect.

I don't teach scissors unless asked. If I have a guy in a cage that scissors I will work with him.

Maybe it's not possible to teach the scissors over the internet, but I'm curious. Can you give it a try? I'd be interested in giving it a shot.

find the Mets/Braves game. It's bottom of the 8th right now.

[JHSump]

I'd watch the Mets/Braves game, but I don't have cable... Oh well.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

A veteran umpire friend puts part of the responsibility for his hip replacement on working the scissors for many years. But who knows ?

[mstaylor]

The basic scissor is left leg leads on a RH and right leg leads on a LH. I stand about a foot back from the catcher. As the pitcher starts his motion I slide my trail leg back to complete the stance. I place my batter side hand beside my knee and my catcher side hand down the side of my trail leg. You have to work on your drop timing because once you drop, you can't move so if your catcher shifts, you are stuck. Also, you will have a tendency to wobble or lose your balance when you start. That will go away with practice or cause you to discontinue using it, depends on the person.

[JHSump]

The basic scissor is left leg leads on a RH and right leg leads on a LH. I stand about a foot back from the catcher. As the pitcher starts his motion I slide my trail leg back to complete the stance. I place my batter side hand beside my knee and my catcher side hand down the side of my trail leg. You have to work on your drop timing because once you drop, you can't move so if your catcher shifts, you are stuck. Also, you will have a tendency to wobble or lose your balance when you start. That will go away with practice or cause you to discontinue using it, depends on the person.

Very succinct. I have never heard that description of where the hands go.

I have a few questions, so I can fully understand how it works, and give it a reasonable try. Given that you've had much success with the scissors, don't seem to have suffered from using it, and I like how you explain things on the forum, I'd like to hear more.

I imagine your weight is mainly on your front foot. Right?

Is your back leg straight?

Is your back upright, or tilted forward? Tilted I imagine. Aligned with back leg?

Is your head over your front knee? Or, forward of front knee? Knee forward of front foot? Or, where?

How low do you get your head? Chin at top of catcher's head?

Do you support your weight using your batter side arm? It doesn't seem you can with your hand beside your knee. If you don't support your weight with your arm, do you just use your core muscles to support your posture?

Gee, now that I've written all those questions, I'm beginning to think a picture may be worth a thousand words. Do you have any pictures of yourself in action?

[mstaylor]

The basic scissor is left leg leads on a RH and right leg leads on a LH. I stand about a foot back from the catcher. As the pitcher starts his motion I slide my trail leg back to complete the stance. I place my batter side hand beside my knee and my catcher side hand down the side of my trail leg. You have to work on your drop timing because once you drop, you can't move so if your catcher shifts, you are stuck. Also, you will have a tendency to wobble or lose your balance when you start. That will go away with practice or cause you to discontinue using it, depends on the person.

Very succinct. I have never heard that description of where the hands go.

I have a few questions, so I can fully understand how it works, and give it a reasonable try. Given that you've had much success with the scissors, don't seem to have suffered from using it, and I like how you explain things on the forum, I'd like to hear more.

I imagine your weight is mainly on your front foot. Right?

Yes, it is mostly over your front leg but the back is the balance.

Is your back leg straight?

Yes

Is your back upright, or tilted forward? Tilted I imagine. Aligned with back leg?

You are inline with your back leg.

Is your head over your front knee? Or, forward of front knee? Knee forward of front foot? Or, where?

Your lead foot, knee and head all should basically line up vertically.

How low do you get your head? Chin at top of catcher's head?

No lower than chin at catcher's head, but you can work higher is it is more comfortable.

Do you support your weight using your batter side arm? It doesn't seem you can with your hand beside your knee. If you don't support your weight with your arm, do you just use your core muscles to support your posture?

I usually just hold my stance. Many put either one hand or both on top of your lead leg as a lock in point. This is fine but it possible to get a good wacking with it there.

Gee, now that I've written all those questions, I'm beginning to think a picture may be worth a thousand words. Do you have any pictures of yourself in action?

I will have to get my son to look for pictures. I do not have video but stills somewhere. I can't get anymore this year because somebody stole my plate shoes off my porch the other day.

[JHSump]

Thanks for the answers! I think I have a good idea of how it works and will give it a shot. Still, any pictures would be useful.

Gee, someone stole your plate shoes!? That's terrible. We each get attached to equipment we use every time out, and having something stolen really feels like a personal loss. I remember reading somewhere that an MLB player had an SUV stolen out of his driveway, but he was most upset about losing his fielding glove --- which was on one of the seats.

[mstaylor]

I was going to buy a pair of 450s next Spring but still.

[BRUMP]

Mike whoever stole you shoes is a complete douche. No one will ever understand the mystical bond between an umpire and his gear.

[CentralOhioUmp30]

Old thread, but I want to update it to see if anyone has had similar problems as me.

 

Some background:  I'm 23, 5'10 and for the vast majority of my life sine turning 26 I've been 150-170 pounds.  Last year I gained A LOT of weight (~30 pounds) and spent the off-season losing it all.  All of last season I had tremendous pain in my feet after about the one-hour mark of any game.  Found out last month that I have plantar fasciitis, so this year has also been tough so far.

 

In addition to the soul-crushing pain I'm experiencing by standing for relatively short periods of time, I have experienced a decent amount of back pain after doing the plate.  I was advised by my physical therapist to try to scissors because it may reduce some of my back pain. I am thinking about giving it a try this weekend.  I have a 14U tournament I'm working (two games on, one game off) and I realize that I am probably going to be hurting later on.

 

I was just wondering if anyone has experienced a situation similar to the one I'm currently dealing with and what, if anything, did you do to get through it?

 

I am sure this will be healed in due time and I absolutely love being on the field; so much so that I am seriously thinking about going to pro school in January.  I just need to be able to get through these next couple of months with as little pain as possible and as few mistakes as possible.  Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[MidAmUmp]

A couple things...

If you're going to work the scissors don't put your back leg directly behind you - stagger it to the side about should width apart - this will keep your balance.

 

About 5 years ago I had plantar fasciitis in my left foot.  I currently have it in my right foot.  It sucks and is very painful.  I'm on my 3rd set of insoles this year and haven't found any that work.  Pills before the game, Ice after a game, stretch it in the morning.  I was told by a trainer to fill a Coke bottle with water and freeze it.  He said the curve of the bottle is the perfect arch of your foot.  Eventually the pain will go away.  My Dr. told me he could give me a shot, but it would be so painful I wouldn't want it...so I'm dealing with the pain.

[umpstu]

Old thread, but I want to update it to see if anyone has had similar problems as me.

 

Some background:  I'm 23, 5'10 and for the vast majority of my life sine turning 26 I've been 150-170 pounds.  Last year I gained A LOT of weight (~30 pounds) and spent the off-season losing it all.  All of last season I had tremendous pain in my feet after about the one-hour mark of any game.  Found out last month that I have plantar fasciitis, so this year has also been tough so far.

 

In addition to the soul-crushing pain I'm experiencing by standing for relatively short periods of time, I have experienced a decent amount of back pain after doing the plate.  I was advised by my physical therapist to try to scissors because it may reduce some of my back pain. I am thinking about giving it a try this weekend.  I have a 14U tournament I'm working (two games on, one game off) and I realize that I am probably going to be hurting later on.

 

I was just wondering if anyone has experienced a situation similar to the one I'm currently dealing with and what, if anything, did you do to get through it?

 

I am sure this will be healed in due time and I absolutely love being on the field; so much so that I am seriously thinking about going to pro school in January.  I just need to be able to get through these next couple of months with as little pain as possible and as few mistakes as possible.  Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I have back issues and it never seemed to matter which stance. I would recommend not working as many games during a tournament.

[bam]

I'd watch the Mets/Braves game, but I don't have cable... Oh well.

You may not believe this (although if you knew me, you would) but I just searched the WHOLE EFFING MLB network for the Mets/Braves game.

[JHSump]

No!!

[dumbdumb]

A couple things...

If you're going to work the scissors don't put your back leg directly behind you - stagger it to the side about should width apart - this will keep your balance.

 

About 5 years ago I had plantar fasciitis in my left foot.  I currently have it in my right foot.  It sucks and is very painful.  I'm on my 3rd set of insoles this year and haven't found any that work.  Pills before the game, Ice after a game, stretch it in the morning.  I was told by a trainer to fill a Coke bottle with water and freeze it.  He said the curve of the bottle is the perfect arch of your foot.  Eventually the pain will go away.  My Dr. told me he could give me a shot, but it would be so painful I wouldn't want it...so I'm dealing with the pain.

I believe, probably wrong, that you have said in the past that so many do it (scissors) the wrong way.

 

Any way during the off season you can somehow get some pictures of the correct way and some of those wrong ways that it is done. Maybe you could use a chair as a catcher if you do not have someone to get down as the catcher.

[noumpere]

A couple things...

If you're going to work the scissors don't put your back leg directly behind you - stagger it to the side about should width apart - this will keep your balance.

 

About 5 years ago I had plantar fasciitis in my left foot.  I currently have it in my right foot.  It sucks and is very painful.  I'm on my 3rd set of insoles this year and haven't found any that work.  Pills before the game, Ice after a game, stretch it in the morning.  I was told by a trainer to fill a Coke bottle with water and freeze it.  He said the curve of the bottle is the perfect arch of your foot.  Eventually the pain will go away.  My Dr. told me he could give me a shot, but it would be so painful I wouldn't want it...so I'm dealing with the pain.

You also need some hard orthotics to add to the shoes.  I use "superfeet" and they are hard, black, 1/2 or 3/4 length (I forget what they call them).  But, I am not a dr. lol

 

Heres one web site: http://www.6pm.com/superfeet-easyfit-mens-3-4-black?zfcTest=mat%3A1

 

Let me add that for me it works best if I replace the original insoles with 'working" insoles and then put the orthotic over that.  The working insoles work better for me than the running insoles because lets face it we spend lots of time just standing around on the baseball field.

[CentralOhioUmp30]

 

A couple things...

If you're going to work the scissors don't put your back leg directly behind you - stagger it to the side about should width apart - this will keep your balance.

 

About 5 years ago I had plantar fasciitis in my left foot.  I currently have it in my right foot.  It sucks and is very painful.  I'm on my 3rd set of insoles this year and haven't found any that work.  Pills before the game, Ice after a game, stretch it in the morning.  I was told by a trainer to fill a Coke bottle with water and freeze it.  He said the curve of the bottle is the perfect arch of your foot.  Eventually the pain will go away.  My Dr. told me he could give me a shot, but it would be so painful I wouldn't want it...so I'm dealing with the pain.

You also need some hard orthotics to add to the shoes.  I use "superfeet" and they are hard, black, 1/2 or 3/4 length (I forget what they call them).  But, I am not a dr. lol

 

Heres one web site: http://www.6pm.com/superfeet-easyfit-mens-3-4-black?zfcTest=mat%3A1

 

Let me add that for me it works best if I replace the original insoles with 'working" insoles and then put the orthotic over that.  The working insoles work better for me than the running insoles because lets face it we spend lots of time just standing around on the baseball field.

 

I got custom orthotics from my podiatrist.  After about a month of full-time wear, I've experienced little to no decrease in my pain.  I have the standard 4-6 week check-up to see if there needs to be an adjustment.

[MidAmUmp]

 

A couple things...

If you're going to work the scissors don't put your back leg directly behind you - stagger it to the side about should width apart - this will keep your balance.

 

About 5 years ago I had plantar fasciitis in my left foot.  I currently have it in my right foot.  It sucks and is very painful.  I'm on my 3rd set of insoles this year and haven't found any that work.  Pills before the game, Ice after a game, stretch it in the morning.  I was told by a trainer to fill a Coke bottle with water and freeze it.  He said the curve of the bottle is the perfect arch of your foot.  Eventually the pain will go away.  My Dr. told me he could give me a shot, but it would be so painful I wouldn't want it...so I'm dealing with the pain.

I believe, probably wrong, that you have said in the past that so many do it (scissors) the wrong way.

 

Any way during the off season you can somehow get some pictures of the correct way and some of those wrong ways that it is done. Maybe you could use a chair as a catcher if you do not have someone to get down as the catcher.

 

Well I probably said in the past that many do "do it" wrong, but I'm not sure I was talking about the scissors     Anyway...

 

I'm from the school of thought that more upper back/neck/head issues result from working the scissors.  According to the "experts" (see MLB & MiLB umpires) I've spoken with, working the scissors combined with light weight masks are causing more concussions and head/neck injuries.  This, they have been told, is because as you lean that far forward getting hit in the mask causes your head to snap back and there's little your body can do to help absorb the impact.  I don't know how accurate that is or if it's just a theory.  Obviously you can see by looking back at history, MLB umpires used to be 33/33/33 box/knee/scissors.  Now virtually all of them are in some form of the box.  Some like Lance Barksdale have worked a modified scissors where he bends his back knee making his chest more upright to help absorb any impact.

 

At the very least I would say don't drop your back leg directly behind you.  That's what causes you to be off balanced.  Stagger your back leg off to the side and that will maintain your balance.

[Sayhey]

Jeff Nelson is one one the finest umpires in the game. His plate game is smooth. He steps back as the pitcher delivers. Some "step into" the position. I tried to be a box umpire. I just do not like it. I will say I have taken some wicked shots off the collarbone. The position does expose the collarbone to foul balls.

[mstaylor]

Slide the back leg into position instead of stepping forward with the lead leg. Sliding back does two things, easier on the front leg, more stable getting into the stance. I tried moving my leg slightly to the side, I hated it. I slide straight back, practice will allow you to do it consistently. 

[UmpireBear]

My problems with the stance.....

1. I can't get a good third strike mechanic on LH batters.

 

I wish I could find a video of one of my mentors. He doesn't work the scissor but his LH punch out works cause its what I do even if I'm working the scissor for young kid ball.