How far in/out are we calling strikes?

[UmpAK]

Recently, I've been experimenting with the strike zone and changing how far in or out I am calling strikes. I normally umpire older guys for travel ball, usually 14u to 18u, and adjust my zone according to the level of play. Usually, with these travel ball games, I call strikes on pitches that are a ball out, and I try to be consistent with that throughout the game. However, there are times when a catcher sets up two balls out(right on the line of the box), and whenever the pitch hits that spot, I call "ball that's out," and the coaches/players start to complain how my zone is very tight. Vice versa I have had times where it's the complete opposite, where they complain about how big my zone is. Realistically, I am NOT calling pitches two balls out, no matter how good the pitch is, because I feel it is unfair as a hitter and pretty much impossible to get a good piece when the ball is crossing the other batter's box.

I feel like my biggest pet peeve is when a catcher sets up way out in the opposite batter's box, and coaches asking me where that pitch missed after he frames it, trying to make it look like he caught it down the middle. Another instance would be when a pitch is way out and the coach would complain, "Where did that miss? The catcher didn't even move his glove." And the worst part is when parents sitting in the stands way down first base think they see exactly where the pitches are. This makes me sometimes consider calling a game from where the parents are sitting, just because they think they see the zone much better from where they are. 

With all this, can someone advise me on how far in or out you guys are calling and what a fair strike zone for the level of play I am working with? Also, is it right to tell the catcher how far I am calling out or in just so they know where to set up? 

[grayhawk]

I don't concern myself with anyone else's perception of the zone. If I'm asked reasonable questions, I give reasonable answers. If they're passive aggressively arguing balls and strikes, then shut it down in an appropriate way.

How far in/out is a tricky question. I don't go out there with the intent to call a certain zone. I try to be a pitcher's umpire, giving as much in/out/up/down as I can without screwing over the batters.

21 minutes ago, UmpAK said:

Also, is it right to tell the catcher how far I am calling out or in just so they know where to set up? 

Hell, frickin, no! As long as you're consistent, he'll figure it out by the 2nd or 3rd inning.

[love to ump]

Gotta agree with Greyhawk...as long as you are consistent, everybody can figure it out.

I change the zone according to skill level of the game, and sometimes even to a batter's willingness to stand in and swing.

In my view,,,the zone can change too, according to scoreboard....what's a strike in a 3-2 game will be a lot different in a 15-0 blowout.

Just my thoughts...could be wrong, just like the coaches tell me!

[UmpAK]

21 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

How far in/out is a tricky question. I don't go out there with the intent to call a certain zone. I try to be a pitcher's umpire, giving as much in/out/up/down as I can without screwing over the batters.

I agree with you. I do try to grab as many strikes as possible or else I will be out there forever. 

[SH0102]

There’s no right answer for this. That’s bc the rulebook tells us what the zone is. What parents and coaches don’t understand is it is technically the same for 10u as it is for mlb, but we know realistically that isn’t appropriate.

Bc I umpire college, I am not comfortable going into chalk. In college I try to just call the plate and buffer so my misses are on the edge of River/channel. If I’m doing HS level summer ball (I don’t do hs in spring) I try to call full channel, which means my misses are prob touching chalk. I try to never ball strikes.

Cant say it’s foolproof, no zone ever will be, but if you’re consistent you can feel good about it.  I don’t do 10-14u ever anymore so can’t really help there, I’d prob go full chalk at that age but I’m sure the parents who want MLB zone would disagree.

I also remember learning to think of edges like a pear, you can go a little further out when it’s thigh high, but don’t go so far out when it’s at very top or bottom of zone bc that’s unhittable.

Side note, I’ve long said if I ever did a travel game where both sides gave me s*** about being too big, I’d give them the d1 college trackman zone rest of game and enjoy the walk fest. Never had to though.

another side note, I’ve done games where I’ve been thanked for having a smaller zone, even for 16-18u.  I think the channel/river is appropriate.

[Velho]

45 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

I think the channel/river is appropriate.

Can you expand on what you mean by that? The river is 6" and 2 1/2" of that is a strike by rule. So do you mean striking anything not touching chalk? Or are you getting into the chalk? 

[SeeingEyeDog]

4 minutes ago, Velho said:

Can you expand on what you mean by that? The river is 6" and 2 1/2" of that is a strike by rule. So do you mean striking anything not touching chalk? Or are you getting into the chalk? 

18U and down...if I am NOT on Trakman and...I'm not, I will call anything no chalk a strike provided it's also meeting my up and down limits, of course. Once I have it on the chalk, that's a ball. But, you MUST come out from the very beginning and establish that with your calls.

As for repeated, clearly passive-aggressive questions about, "Where was that one, Blue?"

"About a half ball from your ejection..."

I am not doing that for one more pitch than is necessary. What we permit, we promote. Warn and eject.

~Dawg

[Velho]

13 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

18U and down...if I am NOT on Trakman

I've worked games with TrackMom but not Trackman. What's it like?

[zoops]

17 hours ago, SH0102 said:

There’s no right answer for this. That’s bc the rulebook tells us what the zone is. What parents and coaches don’t understand is it is technically the same for 10u as it is for mlb, but we know realistically that isn’t appropriate.

Bc I umpire college, I am not comfortable going into chalk. In college I try to just call the plate and buffer so my misses are on the edge of River/channel. If I’m doing HS level summer ball (I don’t do hs in spring) I try to call full channel, which means my misses are prob touching chalk. I try to never ball strikes.

Cant say it’s foolproof, no zone ever will be, but if you’re consistent you can feel good about it.  I don’t do 10-14u ever anymore so can’t really help there, I’d prob go full chalk at that age but I’m sure the parents who want MLB zone would disagree.

I also remember learning to think of edges like a pear, you can go a little further out when it’s thigh high, but don’t go so far out when it’s at very top or bottom of zone bc that’s unhittable.

Side note, I’ve long said if I ever did a travel game where both sides gave me s*** about being too big, I’d give them the d1 college trackman zone rest of game and enjoy the walk fest. Never had to though.

another side note, I’ve done games where I’ve been thanked for having a smaller zone, even for 16-18u.  I think the channel/river is appropriate.

You make good points and a good illustration why I think college is easier to call ball/strikes than HS.  No need to expand the zone and it's much easier to be consistent with a more 'true' zone.  Always bugs me when HS pitchers want that pitch that's on the outside part of the chalk called a strike (happens a lot) - in college, they know better.  And, let's face it, we all probably give in and call that pitch at times because we're 2 hours in and it's still the 5th inning 😜

[Richvee]

23 hours ago, SH0102 said:

I also remember learning to think of edges like a pear, you can go a little further out when it’s thigh high, but don’t go so far out when it’s at very top or bottom of zone bc that’s unhittable.

The stop sign strike zone. Wider in the middle. Narrower at the knees and letters. 

[JSam21]

Call townhouses not ranch homes. Instead of working off the plate, we should be working up and down. Far too often we are cutting off 1/3 of the zone by setting out top too low. 

[Kevin_K]

11 hours ago, Richvee said:

The stop sign strike zone. Wider in the middle. Narrower at the knees and letters. 

Too far up/down to be that far out

[SeeingEyeDog]

12 hours ago, Richvee said:

The stop sign strike zone. Wider in the middle. Narrower at the knees and letters. 

Also heard this referred to as the "Jennifer Lopez zone" or the "Kim Kardashian zone"...

~Dawg

[wolfe_man]

...

[MadMax]

10 hours ago, JSam21 said:

Instead of working off the plate, we should be working up and down.

Completely on point. Laterally, the plate is a fixed width. Every pitch-tracking system, regardless of brand, is set on it. The variable dimension is vertical, and we’ve all heard the tales of woe how these imaging systems don’t adjust vertically to the batter. But, we tend to catch the most amount of verbal grief for up-&-down… at least, that’s the round-the-campfire tale. And we get this grief because, supposedly, dugouts cannot see the in-&-out, horizontal dimension. So are we calling a zone for contextual pitch fidelity, or for less grief? 

What I find absolutely fascinating is the amount of air-swings that batters will take pre-game, on-deck, or between pitches, and the vast majority of them (at least amongst amateurs) are in planar path with the bottom of the letters. 🧐 Watch closely sometime! Sure, you might catch some gripes at the beginning of the game, but I can tell you, as long as you’re consistent across both clubs, and from inning to inning, lemme tell ya, something happens: 

1. Batters start swinging at that level, and amateurs will either swing right thru it, or will get solid contact on it so as to put it into play. 
2. Most pitchers begin to tire, and the “crossing point” of those pitches will start to drop as well… which will be middle-middle (or as I call it – center mass). And, either they’ll be in the wheelhouse for good playable contact, or a batter will guess/read wrong, and will take for an “easy”, grief-less strike! 

Besides! If you get into a good stance, your eyes will / should be near the top of the zone anyway! 

Now, in regards to the bottom of the zone, we’re all seeing the 1KD philosophy permeate amateur catching. This 1KD approach was born out of MLB catchers pursuing better framing techniques, especially at the bottom of the zone. The problem with amateurs, they set up too far back, and they lack the discipline, skill, or forearm strength to catch these low pitches, fingers-up / thumb-down so as to “sell it” as a strike at the bottom of the zone, so we (umpires) catch grief for their messiness and fumbles, chided on rewarding poor catching. Even if they “bounce” their wrist! 

So what I do is establish the bottom – vocally – as early in the game (or inning) as I can, and then reinforce it as the game goes on.

[JSam21]

On 6/27/2025 at 6:10 PM, MadMax said:

Completely on point. Laterally, the plate is a fixed width. Every pitch-tracking system, regardless of brand, is set on it. The variable dimension is vertical, and we’ve all heard the tales of woe how these imaging systems don’t adjust vertically to the batter. But, we tend to catch the most amount of verbal grief for up-&-down… at least, that’s the round-the-campfire tale. And we get this grief because, supposedly, dugouts cannot see the in-&-out, horizontal dimension. So are we calling a zone for contextual pitch fidelity, or for less grief? 

 

With almost every game having some sort of video, the more complaints that I see are now for pitches off the plate. Granted, people are going to complain either way. But let's go look at the umpire videos that are posted on the internet, I would say that a vast majority of them are complaining about pitches off the plate. Yes, we have the videos for pitches up and down, but most of them are for pitches in and out. If we keep them on the plate, or in the buffer zone, we will likely hear far less complaints. 

[BigBlue4u]

On 6/25/2025 at 8:52 PM, SH0102 said:

There’s no right answer for this. That’s bc the rulebook tells us what the zone is. What parents and coaches don’t understand is it is technically the same for 10u as it is for mlb, but we know realistically that isn’t appropriate.

The right answer might be what is acceptable to the players.