Tagging up

[Tbone]

Can a runner tag up and advance after a foul fly ball is caught?

[Velho]

Yes. Fair or foul doesn't matter for a batted ball that is caught in flight. They both play the same. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

This is precisely why when we have a foul fly ball caught prior to touching the ground, we do NOT announce that foul. We simply point foul and if it's a can of corn catch, hammer the out. If it's NOT a can of corn catch, we can announce, "That's a catch!" while again, hammering the out.

~Dawg

[Coach Carl]

We know that it is not a dead ball when a foul ball is caught because of 5.06(c).

5.06(c) Dead Balls

The ball becomes dead...when:

(5) A foul ball is not caught...

We know the runner can tag up and try to advance because of 5.09(b).

5.09 (b) Retiring a runner

Any runner is out when:

(5) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder. He shall not be called out for failure to retouch his base after the first following pitch, or any play or attempted play. This is an appeal play;

[noumpere]

14 hours ago, Tbone said:

Can a runner tag up and advance after a foul fly ball is caught?

Baseball 101 (or maybe even a prerequisite to take Baseball 101).  Still, I see way too many runners not tagging up on an obvious foul fly.

[beerguy55]

In short...

An uncaught foul ball is dead.

A caught foul ball is live.

[grayhawk]

35 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Baseball 101 (or maybe even a prerequisite to take Baseball 101).  Still, I see way too many runners not tagging up on an obvious foul fly.

And I see too many umpires not getting a good angle for the tag up in these situations as well. For example:

3 umpire mechanics: R2 only with 1 out. Batter hits a fly ball down the RF line in foul territory. As U1 in deep B, you should get to the left field side of the base to get R2's tag. Too many umpires either stay put or even drift toward the ball. This is clearly PU's fair/foul, catch/no catch, and U3 has the play at 3rd. As U1, you have ONE JOB, so get in a good position for the tag up.

[jimurrayalterego]

1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

And I see too many umpires not getting a good angle for the tag up in these situations as well. For example:

 

And other situations as well:

 

[The Man in Blue]

On 4/22/2025 at 7:19 PM, Velho said:

Yes. Fair or foul doesn't matter for a batted ball that is caught in flight. They both play the same. 

Or for Shakespeare . . . 

 

[Velho]

🦆

[maven]

8 hours ago, Velho said:

🦆

Everything OK, Velho? The mallard is an internet SOS...

[MadMax]

On 4/23/2025 at 10:21 AM, grayhawk said:

3 umpire mechanics: R2 only with 1 out. Batter hits a fly ball down the RF line in foul territory. As U1 in deep B, you should get to the left field side of the base to get R2's tag. Too many umpires either stay put or even drift toward the ball. This is clearly PU's fair/foul, catch/no catch, and U3 has the play at 3rd.

I agree with your premise, but there are some things to identify and qualify so as to make this work... 

First: "Batter hits a fly ball... "
The first thing U1 should do is locate the ball. No daydreaming! Whether you're U1 in A, or in B-deep (the only two IPs* you'll ever be as a U1 in 3-man), your first reaction on a batted ball (unless it is hit right at you) is to read. 

Second: "... down the RF line in foul territory."
Now, if we're reading the flight of the ball, and then turn with it, we have the opportunity to read-in-a-moment the fielders. If F9 and F3 and F4 start moving rapidly towards the line, that's a tip-off. If it's an obvious fly ball in foul territory, then by all means, move to that prescribed region so as to line up the bag-&-tag with the ball. However, what will certainly help the crew, is if PU opens his 🤬mouth and communicates "I have the LINE!" This signifies to the U1 that PU is taking Fair/Foul, Catch/No-Catch. 

Third: "Too many umpires either stay put or even drift toward the ball..." 
I would advise against generically prescribing to go to that region outside of the basepaths, instead doing so only when warranted. If it is a trouble ball, there's a potential of Fair, and No-Catch. In that instance, who has BR at 1B? So, U1 has to read and react in accordance to where the ball is headed. If the ball's (and fielders) direction implies (obviously) Foul territory, then surely, go where you advise (with haste!). However, if there's potential of Trouble Ball, I would actually advise to drop from B-deep down towards the "hatch cover" (ie. the back of the mound), deep in the working area. That way, you can put 2B and R2 at the limit of your peripheral vision (on your left) and the the ball's descent at the other limit (on your right), secure in the knowledge that your PU is going to make that call on the ball. If caught, immediately check R2 and 2B. If caught and thrown, let the ball take you there. If caught, R2 departs, and throw goes to 3B, step towards 2B and let the throw passing by you turn you. If not caught, and Fair, then you now have 2 Runners you're observing - touch of 1B by BR and any plays upon him, and R2 in a play attempt upon him at 2B. 

So, I agree with you, just "hanging out" or frozen at B-deep ain't good, but neither is just heading to C-beyond like a drone. Move with a read and considered purpose. 

[The Man in Blue]

On 4/23/2025 at 10:49 PM, Velho said:

🦆

 

What the  🦆?

[Replacematt]

On 4/23/2025 at 10:21 AM, grayhawk said:

And I see too many umpires not getting a good angle for the tag up in these situations as well. For example:

3 umpire mechanics: R2 only with 1 out. Batter hits a fly ball down the RF line in foul territory. As U1 in deep B, you should get to the left field side of the base to get R2's tag. Too many umpires either stay put or even drift toward the ball. This is clearly PU's fair/foul, catch/no catch, and U3 has the play at 3rd. As U1, you have ONE JOB, so get in a good position for the tag up.

Nope...not approved.

You have two jobs--you have to be able to get to 1B if the ball drops.

14 hours ago, MadMax said:

deep in the working area.

Because words mean things, and people are here to learn...there is no working area in the three-umpire system. We are not bound by that rectangle.

[grayhawk]

46 minutes ago, Replacematt said:

You have two jobs--you have to be able to get to 1B if the ball drops.

I'm talking about a ball that is clearly over foul territory. If there is any chance of it falling fair, then I'm giving up the tag to U3 and taking the BR.

[Replacematt]

5 hours ago, grayhawk said:

I'm talking about a ball that is clearly over foul territory. If there is any chance of it falling fair, then I'm giving up the tag to U3 and taking the BR.

Also not approved.

[MadMax]

10 hours ago, Replacematt said:

there is no working area in the three-umpire system. We are not bound by that rectangle.

True. 

It is very akin to changing the addressing system on… well… something requiring addressing. 

Heh… it’s a kick when “established” Fed (or even a few college) or otherwise amateur umpires attend a Pro-umpire school, and try explaining / defending (their) positioning. “A”, “B”, “C” are met with quizzical stares from redjackets. Sometimes a redjacket will take pity on said ump-student, and explain, “We don’t use those terms at umpire school”. 

For the sake of brevity, I’m merely giving a landmark. 

[Replacematt]

5 hours ago, MadMax said:

True. 

It is very akin to changing the addressing system on… well… something requiring addressing. 

Heh… it’s a kick when “established” Fed (or even a few college) or otherwise amateur umpires attend a Pro-umpire school, and try explaining / defending (their) positioning. “A”, “B”, “C” are met with quizzical stares from redjackets. Sometimes a redjacket will take pity on said ump-student, and explain, “We don’t use those terms at umpire school”. 

For the sake of brevity, I’m merely giving a landmark. 

Yep. Just wanted to ensure people didn't think it was an actual boundary in this system. This isn't "there are no force outs at first" pedantism.